Guatemalan libertarian activist speech.

[sweede]

Language barrier? i think they were all speaking pretty good spanish.

I meant the first video, sorry.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I wish a lot of you guys could speak spanish, there are plenty of interesting concepts about populism both in the left and right wing in the hispanic world recent history that isnt plagued by identity politics.

What i find interesting about her, is that she has a deep, true commitment towards her ideology, as opposed to most American "libertarians" i met here that are simply closet statists who are now in the Trump-wagon.

She was invited to talk about her book to a right wing show in Spain and she had a civil, although quite heated disagreement with the guests there for obvious reasons. Seems that they invited her for her attacks against XXI century socialism, and then she starts talking about the flaws of right wing governments.

She also criticizes the right wing latin American governments with the same rule that she criticizes left wing governments and blames the former for the later.



Although at the end of the interview she is asked if she is "ultra liberal" (liberal in the context of classic liberalism) and she says that there is a more extremist version of her views which calls for the abolishment of the State. (sorry @Greoric but your views are fringe everywhere in the world).

Yaaaaaawn. Same ol' crap.

Ruling class Latin American defending the savagely unequal conditions in Latin America. Her country is #11 in the entire world in inequality, alongside others like Papua New Guinea, Zambia, and Swaziland (yes, Hong Kong is there as well but I hope you guys can tell the massive difference between a high GDP unequal country and a low GDP unequal country)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html

In fact, you'll notice that a LOT of Latin American countries are in the top 25. That's because, collectively, Latin America is THE most unequal region in the world. A region that's awash in natural resources and should be doing great, is both poor AND unequal. So the poor in Latin America have to live miserable lives while being ruled by very wealthy people. This is why populism is so alive in this region.

But you have pieces of shit like this woman pontificating about the evils of populism and their "discourse of hate" and their "preoccupation with free stuff" (those are direct quotes from her) that are the real problem. Yes, people are pissed and demand running water, paved roads, schools, electricity, police protection, but this is all "free stuff" that the populists irresponsibly offer to the stupid, unwashed masses.

So it's people like her and her politics that the US is flooded with Latino immigrants. They keep Latin America miserable, which keeps desperate immigrants streaming into the US. American conservatives, this is your villain.

 

[snakedafunky]

She gets to that point where she says that these countries where said social programs work is because they have both a strong rule of law and a strong sense of private property.

The Japanese monarchy didnt worked fine, Japan was heavily impoverished for decades until the Shogunate fell. Then you had the nascent Japanese democracy of the Taisho period fall to the populist militaristic wing of the Japanese government which ended up in disaster.

Thats a great example because it shows how weak institutions can lead to democracy falling to populism when there is social discontent.

As to latin America being destined to failure, i disagree, i think the resilience of the zone despite a constant streak of bad left and right wing governments is proof that the people themselves have a strong drive to succeed.

And in places where sound economic policies are adopted they see a surge in general productivity and macroeconomic indicators, the issue is that corruption and weak institutions have made the changes too slow and not generalized.

Ok fair enough I have to admit I don't know that much about the Japanese I just sort of assumed they were doing well .

 

[Rod1]

Yaaaaaawn. Same ol' crap.

Ruling class Latin American defending the savagely unequal conditions in Latin America. Her country is #11 in the entire world in inequality, alongside others like Papua New Guinea, Zambia, and Swaziland (yes, Hong Kong is there as well but I hope you guys can tell the massive difference between a high GDP unequal country and a low GDP unequal country)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html

Yup, and i see Venezuela, Ecuador, Venezuela and a lot of other XXI century socialists out there.

Also where in the video did you see her defending the right wing governments of Latin America? She isnt defending the unequal conditions, she is simply pointing out the truth, that the unequal conditions are created by people who use political power to get rich, and this is the reason why people get tricked by populists.

She even points out that unequal conditions, created by a rigged system is what caused people to go down that route in the first place.

In fact, you'll notice that a LOT of Latin American countries are in the top 25. That's because, collectively, Latin America is THE most unequal region in the world. A region that's awash in natural resources and should be doing great, is both poor AND unequal. So the poor in Latin America have to live miserable lives while being ruled by very wealthy people. This is why populism is so alive in this region.

Which is exactly what she said.

But you have pieces of shit like this woman pontificating about the evils of populism and their "discourse of hate" and their "preoccupation with free stuff" (those are direct quotes from her) that are the real problem. Yes, people are pissed and demand running water, paved roads, schools, electricity, police protection, but this is all "free stuff" that the populists irresponsibly offer to the stupid, unwashed masses.

Its irresponsible only if you run massive deficits that you cant hope to pay back while you swindle half the budget.

She also advocates for a strong rule of law and strong, independent courts.

So it's people like her and her politics that the US is flooded with Latino immigrants. They keep Latin America miserable, which keeps desperate immigrants streaming into the US. American conservatives, this is your villain.

I refer to post #6 with the 10 points of the dreaded "Washington Consesus" care to name one latin American regime that has actually followed said points?

The closest example i can think of is Chile and Chile isnt exporting immigrants anywhere, at least not due to poverty.

 

[Rod1]

Ok fair enough I have to admit I don't know that much about the Japanese I just sort of assumed they were doing well .

Nobody was doing well in the 30s TBH, thats where a lot of democracies failed.

 

[Rod1]

I meant the first video, sorry.

She did broke the barrier once, she wanted to say "is" and she said "es".

 

[DespicablePeep]

In short, I was in no way impressed by this video, and I fail to see how she destroyed the Latin American left

there is nothing to destroy, they have self imploded much like anywhere.

 

[sweede]

She did broke the barrier once, she wanted to say "is" and she said "es".

Finicky, are we not??

I think she did very well. After all she is born with roman language and it´s hard for them to speak a germanic language without the touch of sexyness.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

She's absolutely right about socialism and unions. It makes sense why certain posters in here would hate her.

 

[Rod1]

She's absolutely right about socialism and unions. It makes sense why certain posters in here would hate her.

Too bad you dont speak spanish because she also rips Trump (and Hillary) big time.



"First time we saw in the USA a presidential debate with the intellectual quality of a latin American country".

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Too bad you dont speak spanish because she also rips Trump (and Hillary) big time.



"First time we saw in the USA a presidential debate with the intellectual quality of a latin American country".

I speak enough Spanish actually.

I don't really care that she rips Trump and Hillary. I am merely speaking at the topic at hand and the few things shes right about.

Fail use of of the Cormier.gif.

 

[Rod1]

I speak enough Spanish actually.

I don't really care that she rips Trump and Hillary. I am merely speaking at the topic at hand and the few things shes right about.

Fail use of of the Cormier.gif.

Merely pointing out that Trumpites fell for third world level latin american populist tactics.

 

[Trotsky]

Arent you doing the same? not really establishing what neoliberalism is?

It's a complex term, but it's not one that I generally apply to the third world: that is, I don't associate "neoliberalism" as being a problem outside of the focal points of the world economy. To be able to enact neoliberal policy, you need to have existing prosperity and existing economic dominance over other players in the international market. For a country like Guatemala, those preconditions are not met. Neoliberalism is marked first and foremost by borrowing of the aims and fiduciary standards of the US corporate form, in that upward trajectory of profits for the economic elites and for industrial cartels are considered the baseline for allowing any wealth to trickle downwards and that, in establishing that baseline, austerity measures, privatization, and reduction of international democracy are tools toward undermining a shift in priorities.

Ceding economic power is not the same as ceding political and judicial power, she advocates for a strong rule of law (ergo she isnt a true libertarian) and fiscal discipline as solutions to the problem.

Ceding economic power is the same as ceding political and judicial power if we are to take an historically informed perspective. Say what you will about the political or non-democratic influences of Latin American socialism/state capitalism, but at least it is upfront about its aims. Meanwhile libertarian capitalist philosophy has again and again weakened the democratic state, empowered economic actors, and then allowed the latter to coerce the former into a more "business friendly" form. It's why, for all the conjecture about how socialism fails due to human nature and is impossible to properly implement, it is libertarian capitalism that is truly and most basically incompatible with corporate nature, and human nature as well, and accommodation of its dictates has led to ruin everywhere other than the United States, which is well on its way.

Care to name one latin "neoliberal" country that implemented 6 or more of the above and still went broke?

Again, I did not use "neoliberal" to describe Latin American countries: your speaker did. However, speaking more generally, neoliberalism is just a natural political evolution of capitalism in a democratic state, and capitalism has failed Latin America every bit as woefully as Leninism and socialism.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Merely pointing out that Trumpites fell for third world level latin american populist tactics.

It's a nice opinion and all but it's not that simple. There is a lot going in America that dictated the election and one big factor was how shitty the left is and their candidate. Nobody wanted a continuation of Obama under the guise of a old pussy hat wearing shrill donkey.

 

[Rod1]

It's a nice opinion and all but it's not that simple. There is a lot going in America that dictated the election and one big factor was how shitty the left is and their candidate. Nobody wanted a continuation of Obama under the guise of a old pussy hat wearing shrill donkey.

That explains the general election it doesnt explains why people picked Trump over the other 17 major republican candidates.

You guys are just lucky that your institutions are solid enough to not have democracy threatened over it.

 

[JDragon]

The closest example i can think of is Chile and Chile isnt exporting immigrants anywhere, at least not due to poverty.

Wouldn't those be emigrants?

 

[Trotsky]

Merely pointing out that Trumpites fell for third world level latin american populist tactics.

I have not seen Trump level of stupidity and incoherency anywhere in the world, highly developed or otherwise.

Like the people who compared him to Duterte, who I would concede as the closet international comparison. But Duterte was dealing with actual existentially pressing concerns and a very flawed country, was posing actual reforms (however brutal and reactionary), and was speaking to specific issues. The United States never had his country's problems, his country's informational deficit, or his country's justifications for electing a dolt. And, on top of that, Duterte is just objectively less of a moron than Trump, who was just randomly talking out of his ass and lying constantly.

If Trump level demagoguery is common in the third world, I have not been privy to it at all. It'd be like Mexico electing....I don't know, I honestly cannot think of a Mexican celebrity who is as stupid and laughable as Trump.

 

[Rod1]

If Trump level demagoguery is common in the third world, I have not been privy to it at all. It'd be like Mexico electing....I don't know, I honestly cannot think of a Mexican celebrity who is as stupid and laughable as Trump.

Trump did provided campaign promises, he said no more NAFTA would bring all manufacturing jobs back, cutting taxes would make GDP grow 5%+, cheaper and better healthcare, etc, etc.

As to Mexico's approaching Trump-level elections i can think of "El cuau" but then again that was for Mayor but he is going for governor now.

Its like Jesse Ventura but more shady.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuauhtémoc_Blanco

As to the previous post, im going to reply to later, since im currently kind of busy and i want to reply with thought.

 

[JDragon]

It'd be like Mexico electing....I don't know, I honestly cannot think of a Mexican celebrity who is as stupid and laughable as Trump

I honestly cannot think of a Mexican celebrity.

 

[Trotsky]

Trump did provided campaign promises, he said no more NAFTA would bring all manufacturing jobs back, cutting taxes would make GDP grow 5%+, cheaper and better healthcare, etc, etc.

But polling has incontrovertibly shown that people who voted for Trump really didn't care about trade, and the latter two were just recycled Republican talking points that had no realistic chance of being taken seriously and which were joined by all the Republican field.

As to Mexico's approaching Trump-level elections i can think of "El cuau" but then again that was for Mayor but he is going for governor now.

Its like Jesse Ventura but more shady.

Even Ventura was more serious and less laughable than Trump. I cannot think of an American politician as stupid, dishonest, and embarrassing as Trump. In terms of presidents, Reagan is a distant second and is closer to the other extreme (being extremely capable, informed, and self-aware) than he is to Trump.