GSP is GOAT, and it's not even close: A lazy Sunday morning coffee discussion

Im talkin´about the criterias I spat in the thread, I dont give a damn about ur GSP.

Hence, show me ur criterias.

Otherwise, since u cant read or are jus´a mere GSP Nut-huggah, jus´GTFO, u ´tard.
LOL I can't read? Translating the gibberish you pass off as language requires top-notch linguistic analytical skills. I thought I'd give you a shot at coming across as something more than a moron but my hopes have been vanquished by your subhuman diatribe. I bid you adieu and most parsimonious pleasantries.

No hard feelings though, I hope you get the best seat on the short bus next morning. Cheers.
 
The fact that Arlovski was KTFO within seconds by a complete and utter can like Rogers, shows you how little credibility both of their rankings were at the time.

Sylvia was shot and coming off a loss, no ifs or buts about it.

The point is, these fights spanning from 2007 to 2009 did not allow Fedor to keep his #1 pound for pound ranking, that is a total joke.

During that time, Silva destroyed Franklin twice to capture gold, wrecked prospects like Marquardt, destroyed Henderson one of the best fighters ever, and went up to LHW to absolutely toy with the former LHW champ who had just lost the title.

GSP during that started out bad with the Serra loss but was then avenging his losses and dominating Penn, Alves etc. So he would have been more qualified than Fedor too if it wasn't for Anderson.

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The argument that GSP decisions his opponents is valid. He sure has done so.

BUT in those decisions he RARELY lost a round.

AND the vast majority of his opposition were completely out-classed and fucked-up by GSP. Very few of the guys that GSP owned have ever been the same after their fight.

GSP wrecked Koschek, and he was never the same afterwards. I'd say that Fitch, while he did win fights post-GSP, he also wasn't the same. Fitch definitely lost more after the GSP beating.

GSPs losses? He learned greatly from them and never repeated the same mistakes twice. In the rematches, he totally out-classed his former conqueror.

GSP is definitely top-3 in the GOAT list. Spider and Bones are as well. Yes they have been caught with PEDs. I am one that believes that pretty much every fighter is on them. If they aren't caught it's just because they are either smarter at their cycling or because they are exceedingly lucky. I'd list Matt Hughes at #4. Too many over-look how great and dominant Matt Hughes was as champion. Sure, he lost a time or two. He won an awful lot as champ, and in hard, dominant ways. He was an asshole, as a person, and his asshole antics caught up to him once his chin vacated the building. He laid the groundwork that GSP had to surpass to become the MW GOAT.

Fedor? Probably #5.

Fedor? Possibly GOAT at HW, but below these 4 in the rankings. Earlier Fedor was amazing. He was a finisher. He'd brawl it out on the feet and GNP or submit on the ground. Later Fedor only tried to bang on the feet. His stand-up defense wasn't as great as his striking power, so he ate a lot of hard shots. That shit adds up over time, and makes you prone to KOs. All at the expense of his ground game, too. He totally went idiot when he fell into Werdum's trap and got subbed. Early Fedor wouldn't have fallen for that shit. Later Fedor, who seemed to only work on striking (but not striking defense), fell head-first into a submission from one of the greatest HW MMA submission fighters ever. The end of his career was a mess, with losses to Bigfoot and Hendo. Now Hendo can over-hand right nearly anyone into night-night time, and again Fedor just tried to eat that punch with a chin that just wasn't there. Bigfoot is a freakshow with some talent, and Fedor made a career of killing freaks, but this one got him.

If Fedor called it a career before ever coming to the USA to fight, even then he'd have problems on the all-time GOAT list because he didn't beat enough quality opponents. He beat some greats in Big Nog and Cro Cop, but the other GOATs have far more wins over quality opponents.
 
Silly ts

Can’t be goat by decisioning most of your opponents, tapping to strikes vs lw, retiring after controversial split decision n of course can’t forget greasing

If your penis depended on you guessing correctly whether GSP juiced some time during his title defense streak, how would you guess?

GSP = The Decisionator!

Keep Dreaming and stop putting Bailey's into your coffee!

Bloody Mary is a better choice.

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Let's narrow the race down to two people right off the bat: GSP and Fedor. Anderoid and Boner pills Jones are disqualified due to being caught cheating, MULTIPLE TIMES. I know some of you MIGHT want to throw Mighty Mouse in there, but I find that laughable. He is king in a Bellator tier division, the Hector Lombard of 2017. IF he faces ANY of the top 3 at 135 he is sure to get son'd, which is why he wants nothing to do with those Superfights. He is comfortable being the paper p4p champ, and the UFC is comfortable agreeing with that narrative to keep promoting a weak division they put a lot of time and money into, and don't want to scrap for financial reasons.

But I digress...Why is GSP GOAT? Aside from being the most overall consistently talented and athletic competitor of all time, aside from dominating the 2 guys that beat him in spectacular fashion, showing BOTH the loses were flukes, aside from beating the active champs in 3 divisions, his longevity factors kill any hopes of Fedor being GOAT. This is coming from someone who was Fedor's biggest fanboy in his prime. GSP moved up a weight class and took the belt, after having 3 years off, at roughly the same age that Fedor was losing to a 205 catch weight Dan Henderson and a Werdum whose standup skills were still very rudimentary. If we were to be honest here, BECAUSE of longevity, Werdum is pretty close to Fedor in GOAT status. doesn't beat him, but is in the top ten.

So there you have it, simple and as observable as the sky: GSP is taking belts from bigger guys in the UFC after 35, Fedor is losing to the UFC's bench warmers in Bellator and Strikeforce. I hate to say it, but some things need to be said. As fans of Fedor in his prime, we can't start being as delusional as Anderson fans, we need to accept observable reality. Fedor WAS GOAT, but GSP caught up.

I'm going to go back to this delicious, Columbia roast. If you're wondering, I like my coffee like the GOAT likes his...

legacy. Sweet full of flavor. Cheers.

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Sorry.
Beating Serra does not erase the fact he lost to fucking Serra.
And Hughes was already at the tail end of his career, same as Fedor fighting now.
Beating Fedor, or Silva now is meaningless. During their primes though, it would be a huge accomplishment.

Besides, you are claiming DJ would get son'd by the top 3 at 135?
That's laughable compared to GSP who literally run away from Silva throughout most of his WW reign, but as soon as Bisping was at the top, he all of a sudden came back AND fought Bisping (instead of fighting Woodley in his old division).
This not only shows GSP knew how weak Bisping is, but also it exposes how much he feared SIlva.

And that's while DJ already said he would fight Cody (who was the champ at that time), and that he also accepts fighting TJ, as long as the UFC is willing to pay what he deserves for it.
If anything the UFC is the one messing this up by trying to force him to fight for less money than the P4P (by UFC's own assessment) and record-breaking winningest champion in the UFC deserves...

So there you have it.
Not only DJ beats GSP by a large margin at GOAT race, but I still think Fedor is ahead of him (due to his decade of dominance while fighting guys 2-3 normal divisions heavier than him)....
...and that is without counting JJ or Silva.

GSP is #3... and if he does not unify his belt with WHittaker, he will be worse than a PED user.
Because GOAT does not duck... and GSP already Ducked Silva for too many years.
 
Maybe we could call it a wash but it doesn't account for the fact GSP rematched and destroyed both guys he lost to. He also has the most Top 5 wins in MMA history.

Because Fedor had his losses at the end of his career, and GSP at the start, allowing for rematches?

Look, Muhammad Ali had some pretty bad losses at the end of his career. Does that means he's not a GOAT candidate? Same for Joe Louis.

For that matter, look at Michael Jordan's last year, or Gretzky's last years, or Usain Bolt being beat in the last world championships ... are they all disqualified from GOAT status because they were unable to beat guys at the end of their careers?

Generally people look at results in prime, not at the start or finish of careers, because human physical (and mental actually) performance changes with age, getting better when you're young, decreasing past age 30.

If you include whole lifetimes, them most GOAT's in most sports would be disqualified. Look at Babe Ruth's numbers for his last year. Or Jordan's. Or Greztky ... well, you get the idea.

You can make a case for GSP. For Fedor. For Jones. For Anderson. Anyone who doesn't think any of those four is a candidate is hopelessly biased. Listen to what the fighters say themselves. Is GSP calling Fedor a can crusher? Look it up, you'll be surprised by GSP's assessment of Fedor.
 
TDLR with all due respect just because I don’t think there is a discussion to be made, sorry. He is the undisputed GOAT

Well, outside of anything else, just given that Fedor, GSP, Anderson and Jones all have equal numbers of people saying they're the GOAT shows that whatever else might be true, none of them is the undisputed GOAT.

You only have to look up the definition of "undisputed" to realize that.
 
Because Fedor had his losses at the end of his career, and GSP at the start, allowing for rematches?

Look, Muhammad Ali had some pretty bad losses at the end of his career. Does that means he's not a GOAT candidate? Same for Joe Louis.

For that matter, look at Michael Jordan's last year, or Gretzky's last years, or Usain Bolt being beat in the last world championships ... are they all disqualified from GOAT status because they were unable to beat guys at the end of their careers?

Generally people look at results in prime, not at the start or finish of careers, because human physical (and mental actually) performance changes with age, getting better when you're young, decreasing past age 30.

If you include whole lifetimes, them most GOAT's in most sports would be disqualified. Look at Babe Ruth's numbers for his last year. Or Jordan's. Or Greztky ... well, you get the idea.

You can make a case for GSP. For Fedor. For Jones. For Anderson. Anyone who doesn't think any of those four is a candidate is hopelessly biased. Listen to what the fighters say themselves. Is GSP calling Fedor a can crusher? Look it up, you'll be surprised by GSP's assessment of Fedor.

I never said Fedor wasn't a GOAT candidate, that table has 4 men at it and I'm alright with that.
 
I just don’t see a WW that could do what Sakuraba did.

If you’re talking about titles it’s hard to argue against GSP now. I think anyone arguing Fedor at this point is stuck in the past.

But in terms of their respective body of work and obstacles they had to over come in their fights, Saku over George for me.
 
The fact is, when u talk about the potential top5 GOATs, u´re talking about rarefied air.

It´s then all about splittin´hairs...

The decisive criteria then should be the D2BG (Dare2BeGreat) one.

What did the fighter do against heavier opponents?

What u do compare is:

1/ The way they dominated the game.

2/ The quality of their opponents.

3/ The innovations they brought to the game.

4/ How many HOFers in the resumé.

5/ Quality wins AND quality losses (= put wins & losses INTO CONTEXT)

6/ Ali´s D2BG (Dared 2 Be Great?)... against heavier opponents.

Obs: this is NOT a head-2-head contest btw 2 fighters from different eras

First lets take away Jones and Silva**** and break down Fedor and GSP

Fedor Emelianko: 36-5
Pride HW Champ, 2004 Pride HW Grand Prix Champ, 28 Straight Wins with 21 finishes
Notable wins: Mark Hunt
Mirko Cro Cop- K-1 Champ, Rizin Champ, 2006 Pride open weight Champ
Antonio Nogueria- Pride HW Champ, UFC HW interim Champ (UFC HOF)
Arlovski- UFC HW Champ
Coleman x2- UFC HW Champ, Pride 2000 Grand Prix Winner (UFC HOF)
Tim Sylivia- UFC HW Champ
Kevin Randleman (RIP)- UFC HW Champ
Currently 5-4 in last 9 fights with losses to Werdum, Dan Henderson, Mitrione

George St. Pierre: 26-2
Current UFC MW Champ, Former UFC WW Champ defended 9x, Most Wins in UFC Title (13)
Notable Wins: Koscheck, Fitch
Bisping- UFC MW Champ (future UFC HOF)
Hendricks- UFC WW CHamp
Nick Diaz- Strikeforce Champ
Jake Shields- Strikeforce Champ, EliteXC Champ
BJ Penn x2- UFC LW, WW Champ (UFC HOF)
Hughes- UFC WW Champ (UFC HOF)
Condit- WEC Champ, Interim UFC WW Champ
Serra- UFC WW Champ
Frank Trigg- (UFC HOF Fame Fight)
Sean Sherk- UFC LW Champ, Pride LW Champ
GSP only losses comes to UFC legend Hughes and Serra

To me GSP wins this barber shop talk
 
It took GSP 4 years to do what Conor did simultaneously

McGregor is the OFFICIAL GOAT
 
Let's narrow the race down to two people right off the bat: GSP and Fedor. Anderoid and Boner pills Jones are disqualified due to being caught cheating, MULTIPLE TIMES. I know some of you MIGHT want to throw Mighty Mouse in there, but I find that laughable. He is king in a Bellator tier division, the Hector Lombard of 2017. IF he faces ANY of the top 3 at 135 he is sure to get son'd, which is why he wants nothing to do with those Superfights. He is comfortable being the paper p4p champ, and the UFC is comfortable agreeing with that narrative to keep promoting a weak division they put a lot of time and money into, and don't want to scrap for financial reasons.

But I digress...Why is GSP GOAT? Aside from being the most overall consistently talented and athletic competitor of all time, aside from dominating the 2 guys that beat him in spectacular fashion, showing BOTH the loses were flukes, aside from beating the active champs in 3 divisions, his longevity factors kill any hopes of Fedor being GOAT. This is coming from someone who was Fedor's biggest fanboy in his prime. GSP moved up a weight class and took the belt, after having 3 years off, at roughly the same age that Fedor was losing to a 205 catch weight Dan Henderson and a Werdum whose standup skills were still very rudimentary. If we were to be honest here, BECAUSE of longevity, Werdum is pretty close to Fedor in GOAT status. doesn't beat him, but is in the top ten.

So there you have it, simple and as observable as the sky: GSP is taking belts from bigger guys in the UFC after 35, Fedor is losing to the UFC's bench warmers in Bellator and Strikeforce. I hate to say it, but some things need to be said. As fans of Fedor in his prime, we can't start being as delusional as Anderson fans, we need to accept observable reality. Fedor WAS GOAT, but GSP caught up.

I'm going to go back to this delicious, Columbia roast. If you're wondering, I like my coffee like the GOAT likes his...

legacy. Sweet full of flavor. Cheers.

il_340x270.1343060284_etjw.jpg


Nope. Gsp would get OK by most of the HW opponents fedor destroyed in his prime.
 
There is nothing more ironic and hilarious to me than Pride FC fanboys discrediting fighters because of drug use.

Only on Sherdog folks.
Not sure what Pride FC fanboys you are talking about, especially given I am here saying GSP is the GOAT, but Testosterone-Anderson and TRT Dan both fought in Pride.

I just thought it was funny that your GOAT's are all convicted roiders, that's all. Most of us have removed confirmed cheaters from the list. Interestingly, GSP is the only one so far that is on the common GOAT list (Anderson, Fedor, GSP, Jones) that has fought under USADA and not come up dirty.

It took GSP 4 years to do what Conor did simultaneously

McGregor is the OFFICIAL GOAT
Conor has to dominate a division and win consistently before we will call him any kind of a GOAT. He is off to a good start, but has a ways to go.
 
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Arlovski was #2 HW in the world at the time, Sylvia was top 5 and Rogers was top 10.
Rogers was never anything close to top 100, let alone top 10.
 
AA is not even that notable. It was the start of a 4 fight losing streak for him after the Fedor fight; he really was sad at that time. Despite putting together a short streak of decent wins a while after that, AA then lost 5 in a row recently; nothing to write home to mom about in that career. Fedor has beaten 2 fighters that are really top tier in his whole career, Nog and CC; no surprise he didn't get a finish in any of his fights against those guys (GSP didn't have the luxury of padding his record with loads of easy finishes from lesser fighters).


LOL, clearly a big supported of roids, eh dude?

I know, but he was a legit top 5 HW at the time with a decent win streak.
 
Because Fedor had his losses at the end of his career, and GSP at the start, allowing for rematches?

Look, Muhammad Ali had some pretty bad losses at the end of his career. Does that means he's not a GOAT candidate? Same for Joe Louis.

For that matter, look at Michael Jordan's last year, or Gretzky's last years, or Usain Bolt being beat in the last world championships ... are they all disqualified from GOAT status because they were unable to beat guys at the end of their careers?

Generally people look at results in prime, not at the start or finish of careers, because human physical (and mental actually) performance changes with age, getting better when you're young, decreasing past age 30.

If you include whole lifetimes, them most GOAT's in most sports would be disqualified. Look at Babe Ruth's numbers for his last year. Or Jordan's. Or Greztky ... well, you get the idea.

You can make a case for GSP. For Fedor. For Jones. For Anderson. Anyone who doesn't think any of those four is a candidate is hopelessly biased. Listen to what the fighters say themselves. Is GSP calling Fedor a can crusher? Look it up, you'll be surprised by GSP's assessment of Fedor.
Except you don't know enough about those fighters to say those things obviously. Joe Louis (who you mention here) is a perfect example of why your whole point isn't true- he did a thing very similar to GSP and Serra- he lost to a lesser fighter in his prime, then came back and destroyed that fighter (Max Schmeling). Early career slips don't do anything to erase overall greatness, especially when you prove it was a fluke by coming back and destroying your opponent. Fedor came within a hair of getting KO'd by Fujita when he got caught by a hard punch, and could just as well have a similar situation to GSP and Joe Louis.

Fedor was 33 when he went downhill badly, and most all of these guys you mention were still doing well at that age, still winning titles. If GSP was great in his prime, and great when he was older, he is better than someone who was great only until they were 33 (and fought lesser opponents overall, and in an org that doesn't test also). The later career matters my friend, especially at only 33.
 
First lets take away Jones and Silva**** and break down Fedor and GSP

Fedor Emelianko: 36-5
Pride HW Champ, 2004 Pride HW Grand Prix Champ, 28 Straight Wins with 21 finishes
Notable wins: Mark Hunt
Mirko Cro Cop- K-1 Champ, Rizin Champ, 2006 Pride open weight Champ
Antonio Nogueria- Pride HW Champ, UFC HW interim Champ (UFC HOF)
Arlovski- UFC HW Champ
Coleman x2- UFC HW Champ, Pride 2000 Grand Prix Winner (UFC HOF)
Tim Sylivia- UFC HW Champ
Kevin Randleman (RIP)- UFC HW Champ
Currently 5-4 in last 9 fights with losses to Werdum, Dan Henderson, Mitrione

George St. Pierre: 26-2
Current UFC MW Champ, Former UFC WW Champ defended 9x, Most Wins in UFC Title (13)
Notable Wins: Koscheck, Fitch
Bisping- UFC MW Champ (future UFC HOF)
Hendricks- UFC WW CHamp
Nick Diaz- Strikeforce Champ
Jake Shields- Strikeforce Champ, EliteXC Champ
BJ Penn x2- UFC LW, WW Champ (UFC HOF)
Hughes- UFC WW Champ (UFC HOF)
Condit- WEC Champ, Interim UFC WW Champ
Serra- UFC WW Champ
Frank Trigg- (UFC HOF Fame Fight)
Sean Sherk- UFC LW Champ, Pride LW Champ
GSP only losses comes to UFC legend Hughes and Serra

To me GSP wins this barber shop talk
Wins as the sole criteria is not enough.

Did GSP , in Ali´s words, D2BG?
 
Wins as the sole criteria is not enough.

Did GSP , in Ali´s words, D2BG?
Is coming back after 4 years to move up a weight class and beat Bisping who some consider a P4P Great for a UFC Middleweight Championship not D2BG??
 
GSP just has wins over a better variety of better fighters. He missed out on a Rory fight however and that would've been one of his best wins IMO

Wins over Karo, Diaz, Condit, Penn, Hughes, Bisping, Alves, Fitch, Shields, Miller, Koscheck, Hendricks

Avenged losses to Serra and Hughes

UFC Welterweight Champion
UFC MIddleweight Champion

Fedor missed out on Barnett and Couture, 2 mainstream heavyweight names that would have greatly enhanced his resume had he fought them instead of say, the likes of Zulu or Nagata. Losing to Werdum and Henderson, 2 of the most accomplished fighters he fought also hurts as he never avenged the losses. Without these fighters, his resume is excellent, but it's not quite as deep.

Wins over Monson, Arlovski, Noguiera, Sylvia, CroCop, Lindland, Fujita, Goodridge, Hunt

Lost to Mitrione, Henderson, Werdum, Silva, none of which he avenged nor rematched.

I give the SLIGHTEST of edges to GSP, a lot of people will pick Fedor for nostalgic purposes and PRIDE being more fun, but putting all biases aside, St. Pierre has the edge, both were very dominant and are rightfully #1 and #2.
 
Because Fedor had his losses at the end of his career, and GSP at the start, allowing for rematches?

Look, Muhammad Ali had some pretty bad losses at the end of his career. Does that means he's not a GOAT candidate? Same for Joe Louis.

For that matter, look at Michael Jordan's last year, or Gretzky's last years, or Usain Bolt being beat in the last world championships ... are they all disqualified from GOAT status because they were unable to beat guys at the end of their careers?

Generally people look at results in prime, not at the start or finish of careers, because human physical (and mental actually) performance changes with age, getting better when you're young, decreasing past age 30.

If you include whole lifetimes, them most GOAT's in most sports would be disqualified. Look at Babe Ruth's numbers for his last year. Or Jordan's. Or Greztky ... well, you get the idea.

You can make a case for GSP. For Fedor. For Jones. For Anderson. Anyone who doesn't think any of those four is a candidate is hopelessly biased. Listen to what the fighters say themselves. Is GSP calling Fedor a can crusher? Look it up, you'll be surprised by GSP's assessment of Fedor.
Fedor could've rematched his losses, why are you acting like he couldn't? Did he not keep fighting after Werdum tapped him?
 
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