GSP goat? Lol! Remember vaseline cheat?

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By process of elimination,

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Loiosh said:
Tapping to a fully extended arm bar immediately is the only rational thing to do. Not tapping after you've taken more than a dozen strikes and cannot defend yourself isn't tough, it's stupid.




I'm curious about your definition of "fighter" and why it doesn't apply to GSP. From where I'm sitting, someone who is best at the sport of fighting is the best fighter. Please provide your definition, and be as specific as possible. We aren't really agreeing here, you're saying he's an athlete as opposed to a fighter.




What does that even mean? That you can't be a fighter if you're an excellent athlete? His body is is weapon and he keeps it sharp.




In the hearings it was acknowledged that Nurse should not have both applied the Vaseline and massaged his fighter, which happened due to confusion in the corner. If they had intended it, Nurse could have applied Vaseline to his hand beforehand, to avoid the cameras. They had a hearing, and it was not ruled intentional; if it had, it could have been ruled no contest.




That's a huge stretch. You have to work really hard to convince yourself it's true, especially if you've seen the fight, which was a surgical execution. GSP dominated BJ as if BJ was a child, which is why I imagine his fans are so upset.




The first fight wasn't that close and it was definitely a clear victory. If BJ hadn't scored that one eye poke and done damage while GSP's vision was impaired, it would have been an obvious 30-27. It was pretty much all GSP. The fact that Cecil gave him two rounds is completely insane and considered one of the worst judging moments in the UFC. You tell me what rounds BJ won and why in a fight where GSP out struck BJ almost two to one.
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Tapping to a fully extended armbar in 1 sec is not rational. Even, GSP acknowledged this after the fight. He said he should have fought it more but he was 'afraid'. The son-of-a-bitch SAID he was afraid and you can't acknowledge this? Also, if he had enough sense to tap, he could have defended but you know what happened? He got stunned and he panicked. It is a normal human reaction but definitely not a tough guys reaction. I will say that most guys in the UFC are pretty tough and it is EXTREMELY RARE that you see one tap to strikes because... THEY ARE SO TOUGH. GSP doesn't fall in this category.

He is a fighter and I have not contended that or tried to take that away from him. What I believe is that he is an athlete who learned to fight. He is an exceptional athlete and an exceptional fighter.

What "confusion" caused Nurse to apply the Vaseline to his body? Again, you are reaching.

As for the Vaseline helping him avoid strikes: He could shoot for takedowns and not worry about Penn's guard. This has been highlighted by many fight experts as to how GSP just "powered" through Penn's guard. If you can outstrike your opponent because he fears taking you down, what happens when that fear is gone? You get GSP vs. Penn 2.

As for claiming that the first fight was not "close" that exposes you as a 'fanboy'. Two judges had it at 29-28 GSP and one had it at 29-28 Penn. That is usually a "close fight" in any combat sport. Also, tell me WHO thinks that Cecil's scores in that fight are "one of the worst judging moments in UFC"... please, do tell.

Look, you are making me out to be some GSP detractor when, in fact, I was cheering for GSP the entire Bisping fight. All that I am saying is that Penn was always better than GSP and he made him come out with everything he had to beat him, including a little "Vaseline". An ungreased GSP would have gotten killed against Penn the second time.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Actually, as anyone who's served in any armed forces anywhere will tell you, being smart is an essential part of being a warrior, which I assume is synonymous with being a fighter. Knowing when to stand your ground, when to retreat and counter attack, when to fight on your opponent's turf and when to get him to follow you into yours, when to pull back and give your opponent a temporary victory are all vital elements of fighting.

Being smart is a huge sign of being a warrior - as every drill sergeant will tell you (loudly and repeatedly) when you start basic training (they'll also assure you you're dumb as a rock and have no hope of ever being useful, but that's a different matter).

Condit gets a lot of heat for this in his fight with Diaz, but of the two, it was Condit who fought like a warrior. Diaz stupidly marched ahead, unable to adapt - not the way a true warrior fights at all.

Who would you rather have on your squad in battle - someone like Diaz who's going to charge the enemy whatever the cost, or someone like Condit who's going to use his brains and wins the battle?
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Lol! This is actually a good post but if you did serve, and my hat is off to you for that, you would know that you need BOTH. A hundred Diaz guys charging ahead and 1 Condit leading the way. However, that is not what I meant, in regards to the athlete/fighter comment. There are people who are just 'naturals' at whatever it is they do. Penn is a natural fighter and that is why without any "athletic training" whatsoever, he was able to become a GOAT at MMA. GSP is a 'natural athlete' who learned to fight. He is a fighter, I'm not taking that from him, but he is a natural athlete first and a fighter second. Penn is a fighter who never became an athlete.
 
Loiosh said:
I don't know, maybe by considering the 26 fights he won instead of focusing on one of the two he lost.

Or the six years he was champion.
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And guys like you throw Fedor under the bus.... for shame.
 
Are we really equating Vaseline to steroids? That's like a sliver worse than repeatedly grabbing the cage.
 
GSP would of fucked BJ up that night even if BJ was the one greased up. It just wasn't in the cards for BJ that night.
 
TrueFightFan said:
Tapping to a fully extended armbar in 1 sec is not rational. Even, GSP acknowledged this after the fight. He said he should have fought it more but he was 'afraid'. The son-of-a-bitch SAID he was afraid and you can't acknowledge this? Also, if he had enough sense to tap, he could have defended but you know what happened? He got stunned and he panicked. It is a normal human reaction but definitely not a tough guys reaction. I will say that most guys in the UFC are pretty tough and it is EXTREMELY RARE that you see one tap to strikes because... THEY ARE SO TOUGH. GSP doesn't fall in this category.

He is a fighter and I have not contended that or tried to take that away from him. What I believe is that he is an athlete who learned to fight. He is an exceptional athlete and an exceptional fighter.

What "confusion" caused Nurse to apply the Vaseline to his body? Again, you are reaching.

As for the Vaseline helping him avoid strikes: He could shoot for takedowns and not worry about Penn's guard. This has been highlighted by many fight experts as to how GSP just "powered" through Penn's guard. If you can outstrike your opponent because he fears taking you down, what happens when that fear is gone? You get GSP vs. Penn 2.

As for claiming that the first fight was not "close" that exposes you as a 'fanboy'. Two judges had it at 29-28 GSP and one had it at 29-28 Penn. That is usually a "close fight" in any combat sport. Also, tell me WHO thinks that Cecil's scores in that fight are "one of the worst judging moments in UFC"... please, do tell.

Look, you are making me out to be some GSP detractor when, in fact, I was cheering for GSP the entire Bisping fight. All that I am saying is that Penn was always better than GSP and he made him come out with everything he had to beat him, including a little "Vaseline". An ungreased GSP would have gotten killed against Penn the second time.
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GSP is always candid about his nerves. He panicked because Hughes was his hero and he was still really green. Just about everyone taps to a fully extended armbar, you wondered how much I know, I have ten years of grappling experience. The second the angle is right, you know it's over. Just look at the faces of guys when they're caught with an arm bar at the moment the angle is right, the taps can't come fast enough. When GSP barred Hughes, Hughes screamed his submission.

If you don't know about the confusion, you didn't follow the story.

It wasn't close. GSP lost a round because he was temporarily blinded due to an eye poke, and Cecil Peoples gave BJ another round because he's insane. Seriously, you tell me what rounds GSP lost and why. You replied to this with a question because you either know I'm right already or are afraid to look. BJ was out-struck almost two to one and GSP had all control on the ground.

If you think the Vaseline won the fight for GSP you're clinically insane. Did you even watch that fight? BJ is my favorite lightweight of all time but he was out of his depth against GSP, both times, but catastrophically in the second, and it nothing to do with Vaseline.
 
Loiosh said:
GSP is always candid about his nerves. He panicked because Hughes was his hero and he was still really green. Just about everyone taps to a fully extended armbar, you wondered how much I know, I have ten years of grappling experience. The second the angle is right, you know it's over. Just look at the faces of guys when they're caught with an arm bar at the moment the angle is right, the taps can't come fast enough. When GSP barred Hughes, Hughes screamed his submission.

If you don't know about the confusion, you didn't follow the story.

It wasn't close. GSP lost a round because he was temporarily blinded due to an eye poke, and Cecil Peoples gave BJ another round because he's insane. Seriously, you tell me what rounds GSP lost and why. You replied to this with a question because you either know I'm right already or are afraid to look. BJ was out-struck almost two to one and GSP had all control on the ground.

If you think the Vaseline won the fight for GSP you're clinically insane. Did you even watch that fight? BJ is my favorite lightweight of all time but he was out of his depth against GSP, both times, but catastrophically in the second, and it nothing to do with Vaseline.
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My fellow, Sherdogger, your post is what becomes of 'fanboys' defending their heroes... mindless dribble. How can you honestly tell me that Greasing doesn't help in a fight? If it didn't then why would they do it? Like the guys who defend steroid cheats.

There is no "confusion", it is more like an "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" excuse from Jackson and Nurse. Jackson's camp is the best at it. Here is the point, since the committe couldn't prove that they "intentionally cheated" they let it ride. However, that fact is that THEY CHEATED. Intentionally or unintentionally does not matter. The fight should have actually been stopped, per the rules, when they caught him. Dana White even said this and GSP was his moneymaker. jones and Silva got suspended for "unintentionally" ingesting banned substances... why? Because it was illegal, no matter how it occurred.

I understand how bad an armbar can feel when applied properly but your first instinct, if you are a true fighter, is to fight through. However, if you are an athlete first and a student of the game, you tap quickly acknowledging your defeat.

Look, that first fight could have gone either way by EVERYONE'S account who watched it, including GSP's. I, personally, thought Penn won because of damage and Octagon control. You are correct in that GSP outstruck Penn but Penn looked like he had been through a light sparring session and GSP looked like he was catapulted, face first, into a brick wall. Damage counts in the scoring system, as well. I have to ask, an accidental eyepoke by Penn has brought out the animal in you, did you get this way in EVERY ONE of jon jones' fights?
 
TrueFightFan said:
My fellow, Sherdogger, your post is what becomes of 'fanboys' defending their heroes... mindless dribble. How can you honestly tell me that Greasing doesn't help in a fight? If it didn't then why would they do it? Like the guys who defend steroid cheats.

There is no "confusion", it is more like an "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" excuse from Jackson and Nurse. Jackson's camp is the best at it. Here is the point, since the committe couldn't prove that they "intentionally cheated" they let it ride. However, that fact is that THEY CHEATED. Intentionally or unintentionally does not matter. The fight should have actually been stopped, per the rules, when they caught him. Dana White even said this and GSP was his moneymaker. jones and Silva got suspended for "unintentionally" ingesting banned substances... why? Because it was illegal, no matter how it occurred.

I understand how bad an armbar can feel when applied properly but your first instinct, if you are a true fighter, is to fight through. However, if you are an athlete first and a student of the game, you tap quickly acknowledging your defeat.

Look, that first fight could have gone either way by EVERYONE'S account who watched it, including GSP's. I, personally, thought Penn won because of damage and Octagon control. You are correct in that GSP outstruck Penn but Penn looked like he had been through a light sparring session and GSP looked like he was catapulted, face first, into a brick wall. Damage counts in the scoring system, as well. I have to ask, an accidental eyepoke by Penn has brought out the animal in you, did you get this way in EVERY ONE of jon jones' fights?
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Yeah, we're done.

Well done avoiding my question about that fight.
 
WouldNotBang said:
GSP would of fucked BJ up that night even if BJ was the one greased up. It just wasn't in the cards for BJ that night.
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If Penn greased, you are absolutely right. However, that is why they grease, to keep Penn from fucking THEM up.
 
Loiosh said:
Yeah, we're done.

Well done avoiding my question about that fight.
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We were done from when you said "greasing didn't help". What question have I not answered?

Edit: These debates always end how they started, anyway: You believe what you want to believe and so will I.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
I doubt their opinions have changed much. Fedor got old. So did Anderson. So did Muhammad Ali -ever see his last fights? But people still (rightly consider) Anderson, Ali, and Fedor among the GOATs, and for the same reason that no one cares that Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, and Wayne Gretzky did lousy in their last year - only fans think that getting older and/or accumulated injuries have no effect.

MMA fans are especially silly that way. No baseball fan thinks Ruth was exposed in his last year. No basketball fan thinks Jordan was exposed in his last year. No hockey fan thinks Gretzky was exposed after he turned 34. Or Bobby Orr at 30 for that matter (knee injury). But Sherdog folks think that as soon as anyone declines, they're exposed and never were any good. Its hilarious.

GSP is one of the 4 GOAT's in my opinion. He includes Fedor in that (and there's a recent meeting of him and Fedor if you search that shows he still feels that way) - I suspect GSP is good enough at MMA to recognize another great when he sees one. Its kind of disrespectful to GSP to say he knows so little about MMA that he thinks a guy who is lousy at it (Fedor in your opinion) is one of the greats.
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I didn't say Fedor was lousy at it, I'm a Fedor fan and I'd have him as probably the greatest HW ever, but in my opinion the other three's accomplishments outweigh Fedor's and the fact that Fedor never came to the UFC (alongside wasting his time fighting nobodies inbetween good fighters) is a big factor in why I wouldn't rank him on the same level as Jones, GSP and Anderson.

This is of course personal opinion and there is no correct answer, I just knew a Fedor fan would come at me for not considering him.
 
I don't blame GSP for wanting to be sexy like Sexyama.
 
FFS, who cares if Phil applied Vaseline to GSP's face and then used the same hand to rub him down, the amount would have been minimal. If it was soooooo significant and against the rules, they would have changed it to a NC, suspended GSP and issued a significant fine.

Was there a hearing for Anderson wiping the Vaseline from his face and applying it to his body?

I never understood how knee and ankle wraps, which can aid in grip, were allowed in the past.
 
Franc Mittelo said:
We only care about certain forms of cheating. Using towels to make weight is ok, eye pokes are ok if they are being done by the fighter we are in love with, grabbing gloves is ok if the fighter was in the military (he is a hero who has no problems killing women and children and PTSD is for pussies), sitting longer on the stool is ok because it was the UFC cut man's fault. LOL

I always find it interesting having debates about what type of "sins" people are willing to live with versus get outraged by.
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It's an inconsistent bunch around here isn't it?
 
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