GSP goat? Lol! Remember vaseline cheat?

[RafaelDosSantos]

Forget the Vaseline, how can the GOAT mixed martial artist be a guy who tapped to strikes against a 5 foot 5 Ultimate Fighter lightweight who ate pizzas during training camp?

 

[Loiosh]

Forget the Vaseline, how can the GOAT mixed martial artist be a guy who tapped to strikes against a 5 foot 5 Ultimate Fighter lightweight who ate pizzas during training camp?

I don't know, maybe by considering the 26 fights he won instead of focusing on one of the two he lost.

Or the six years he was champion.

 

[xDogá]

against BJ.

Sherdog forgets quicly

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Your boy quit on the stool get over it - this was a lifetime ago.

BJ refused to evolve with the sport. Anyone who thinks running under water with big rocks is good training is so out of tune with the sport and it's evolution it' no wonder is record is what it is now.
Grease gate is every BJ fans last line of defense. Think about that for a second.

All very true. BJ never had the discipline to truly be an all time great, and IMO he is not. Not at LW or WW. BJ lost badly in his prime to Edgar. From then on his career went down the drain. GSP lost the biggest upset ever to Serra.. He rebounded and went on a legendary run in the UFC and is widely regarded as top 2 all time now..

 

[TrueFightFan]

GSP isn't a fighter?

He's tough as nails and fights right to the end. He pulled his groin halfway through his fight with Alves and kept going and dominated. I love BJ but GSP has ten times the heart. Both GSP's stand-up and (MMA) ground game are superior to BJ.

Criticism of GSP as an athlete is completely insane. He's a professional mixed martial artist, one of the best of all time. He trains all year around. He's always in shape. He fought four times in twelve months and needed a break, so he took time off... And went to Brazil to earn his black belt.

When you say "fighter" instead of "athlete" I think what you mean is "offense at the expense of defense." GSP is much too smart for that, and it makes him a much better fighter.

And no, he doesn't cheat. Saying it doesn't make it so.

And how the hell does grease avoid the striking? Is it magic?

I'll work it this way so that we can see where we agree and where we disagree:

"He's tough as nails and fights right to the end. I love BJ but GSP has ten times the heart. Both GSP's stand-up and (MMA) ground game are superior to BJ." He quit rather quickly when Hughes pulled the armbar and he tapped to strikes from a much smaller man. That does not describe "tough as nails" or "hear" to me. Agree to disagree.

"Criticism of GSP as an athlete is completely insane. He's a professional mixed martial artist, one of the best of all time. He trains all year around. He's always in shape. He fought four times in twelve months and needed a break, so he took time off... And went to Brazil to earn his black belt." He is, probably, the greatest athlete to ever fight in MMA. Agree.

"When you say "fighter" instead of "athlete" I think what you mean is "offense at the expense of defense." GSP is much too smart for that, and it makes him a much better fighter." He is an athlete first and a fighter, second. That's where I have Penn as a fighter first and an athlete... er... I don't even consider him an athlete.

"And no, he doesn't cheat. Saying it doesn't make it so." He got caught greasing in his fight against Penn, however, the newly formed commission didn't know that the rules called for a disqualification and let the fight go on. In the hearings, this was acknowledged but they couldn't determine, at that point, how much the grease contributed to the victory. Since it wasn't stopped by the ringside officials, they could not overturn the victory. This is a FACT. It is not something that is made up and Jackson's camps always seem to get caught bending the rules or juicing.

"And how the hell does grease avoid the striking? Is it magic?" This one makes me wonder how much you know about MMA.... If he is greased, then he is not as concerned about Penn's guard or Jiu Jitsu, as it would be difficult for Penn to hold on to him, as evidenced in their fight. So, he could go for takedowns, at will, and not have to stand with Penn and take the punishment that he did in their first fight. Remember, their first fight wasn't a "clear victory" for GSP... it was a split decision, one which many did not believe that GSP deserved.

 

[pick999]

I member dana was pissed

 

[revoltub]

GreaseP

 

[Sarge3000]

- There is no proof GSP controls anything that is done to him during a fight (IE: That he asked for the Vaseline).
- The idea that Vaseline gives you a massive advantage, when its already smeared in your face, is ridiculous.
- As to the PED allegations, it's called innocent until proven guilty.

 

[knock_you_out]

Remember when Anderson failed for steroids

Yes, like it was yesterday!

 

[Loiosh]

"He's tough as nails and fights right to the end. I love BJ but GSP has ten times the heart. Both GSP's stand-up and (MMA) ground game are superior to BJ." He quit rather quickly when Hughes pulled the armbar and he tapped to strikes from a much smaller man. That does not describe "tough as nails" or "hear" to me. Agree to disagree.

Tapping to a fully extended arm bar immediately is the only rational thing to do. Not tapping after you've taken more than a dozen strikes and cannot defend yourself isn't tough, it's stupid.

"Criticism of GSP as an athlete is completely insane. He's a professional mixed martial artist, one of the best of all time. He trains all year around. He's always in shape. He fought four times in twelve months and needed a break, so he took time off... And went to Brazil to earn his black belt." He is, probably, the greatest athlete to ever fight in MMA. Agree.

I'm curious about your definition of "fighter" and why it doesn't apply to GSP. From where I'm sitting, someone who is best at the sport of fighting is the best fighter. Please provide your definition, and be as specific as possible. We aren't really agreeing here, you're saying he's an athlete as opposed to a fighter.

"When you say "fighter" instead of "athlete" I think what you mean is "offense at the expense of defense." GSP is much too smart for that, and it makes him a much better fighter." He is an athlete first and a fighter, second. That's where I have Penn as a fighter first and an athlete... er... I don't even consider him an athlete.

What does that even mean? That you can't be a fighter if you're an excellent athlete? His body is is weapon and he keeps it sharp.

"And no, he doesn't cheat. Saying it doesn't make it so." He got caught greasing in his fight against Penn, however, the newly formed commission didn't know that the rules called for a disqualification and let the fight go on. In the hearings, this was acknowledged but they couldn't determine, at that point, how much the grease contributed to the victory. Since it wasn't stopped by the ringside officials, they could not overturn the victory. This is a FACT. It is not something that is made up and Jackson's camps always seem to get caught bending the rules or juicing.

In the hearings it was acknowledged that Nurse should not have both applied the Vaseline and massaged his fighter, which happened due to confusion in the corner. If they had intended it, Nurse could have applied Vaseline to his hand beforehand, to avoid the cameras. They had a hearing, and it was not ruled intentional; if it had, it could have been ruled no contest.

"And how the hell does grease avoid the striking? Is it magic?" This one makes me wonder how much you know about MMA.... If he is greased, then he is not as concerned about Penn's guard or Jiu Jitsu, as it would be difficult for Penn to hold on to him, as evidenced in their fight.

That's a huge stretch. You have to work really hard to convince yourself it's true, especially if you've seen the fight, which was a surgical execution. GSP dominated BJ as if BJ was a child, which is why I imagine his fans are so upset.

So, he could go for takedowns, at will, and not have to stand with Penn and take the punishment that he did in their first fight. Remember, their first fight wasn't a "clear victory" for GSP... it was a split decision, one which many did not believe that GSP deserved.

The first fight wasn't that close and it was definitely a clear victory. If BJ hadn't scored that one eye poke and done damage while GSP's vision was impaired, it would have been an obvious 30-27. It was pretty much all GSP. The fact that Cecil gave him two rounds is completely insane and considered one of the worst judging moments in the UFC. You tell me what rounds BJ won and why in a fight where GSP out struck BJ almost two to one.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

begins around :30 seconds...multiple grabs of the rope!

When the biggest fedor nuthugger claude acknowledges that Fedor grabbed the rope, it is undeniable.

Interestingly enough, Lindland clearly grabs the rope to get Fedor into the corner in the first place. I guess that's in two wrongs don't make a right territory, but in theory the proper thing for the ref to have done is to neutralize both Fedor's and Linland's grabs by moving them back into the center.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Didn't see any rope grab. Fedor just hovered his hand on the ropes. The outcome would have been the same. If you say Fedor rope grabbed than Lindland grabbed it as well at the start.

Both Fedor and Lindland clearly grabbed the ropes, first Lindland, then Fedor.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Nothing against GSP but even Dana said that night,"He got caught greasing." That was already a term and tactic. There is no way GSP would risk what happened in the first Penn fight and he greased so that he could go in for takedowns without worrying about Penn's Jiu Jitsu. Don't try to act like it didn't happen.

Ironically enough, the reason Penn did so well in the first fight was because he poked GSP in the eyes. You could argue that the Vaseline was payback for the eye pokes.

I suppose its debatable which is worse. Personally I'd rather fight someone who is greased than someone who's poking me in the eyes, but I guess everyone is different. BJ obviously feels that eye pokes aren't really cheating, but greasing is, so presumably he wouldn't have minded if GSP had poked him in the eyes instead of greasing.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I'd like to know when those guys said Fedor was the GOAT, things have changed quite a bit in the past 5 years.

Yep it's subjective and in my opinion GSP is the greatest, anybody is free to disagree.

I doubt their opinions have changed much. Fedor got old. So did Anderson. So did Muhammad Ali -ever see his last fights? But people still (rightly consider) Anderson, Ali, and Fedor among the GOATs, and for the same reason that no one cares that Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, and Wayne Gretzky did lousy in their last year - only fans think that getting older and/or accumulated injuries have no effect.

MMA fans are especially silly that way. No baseball fan thinks Ruth was exposed in his last year. No basketball fan thinks Jordan was exposed in his last year. No hockey fan thinks Gretzky was exposed after he turned 34. Or Bobby Orr at 30 for that matter (knee injury). But Sherdog folks think that as soon as anyone declines, they're exposed and never were any good. Its hilarious.

GSP is one of the 4 GOAT's in my opinion. He includes Fedor in that (and there's a recent meeting of him and Fedor if you search that shows he still feels that way) - I suspect GSP is good enough at MMA to recognize another great when he sees one. Its kind of disrespectful to GSP to say he knows so little about MMA that he thinks a guy who is lousy at it (Fedor in your opinion) is one of the greats.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

"When you say "fighter" instead of "athlete" I think what you mean is "offense at the expense of defense." GSP is much too smart for that, and it makes him a much better fighter." He is an athlete first and a fighter, second. That's where I have Penn as a fighter first and an athlete... er... I don't even consider him an athlete.

Actually, as anyone who's served in any armed forces anywhere will tell you, being smart is an essential part of being a warrior, which I assume is synonymous with being a fighter. Knowing when to stand your ground, when to retreat and counter attack, when to fight on your opponent's turf and when to get him to follow you into yours, when to pull back and give your opponent a temporary victory are all vital elements of fighting.

Being smart is a huge sign of being a warrior - as every drill sergeant will tell you (loudly and repeatedly) when you start basic training (they'll also assure you you're dumb as a rock and have no hope of ever being useful, but that's a different matter).

Condit gets a lot of heat for this in his fight with Diaz, but of the two, it was Condit who fought like a warrior. Diaz stupidly marched ahead, unable to adapt - not the way a true warrior fights at all.

Who would you rather have on your squad in battle - someone like Diaz who's going to charge the enemy whatever the cost, or someone like Condit who's going to use his brains and wins the battle?

 

[MMA__Analyst]

Accomplishments:
- Won 33 consecutive rounds
- Most wins in UFC title fights (13) and won 12 of them in a row.
- Most wins in UFC history
- 3rd most consecutive title defenses with 9.
- Most title defenses in WW history.
- Most takedowns in UFC history
- Most wins over former UFC champions, with 9 wins over 7 champions ranging from lightweight to middleweight.
- Has beaten every man he has ever faced, avenging both of his only two losses in devestating fashion.
- GSP essentially beat every generation of fighters of his weight class. The previous generation of WW's, his generation of WW's, and the next generation of WW's. Took 4 years off in the fastest growing sport, and took his first fight back against a larger champion in a heavier weight division. Wins the fight in devestating and dominating fashion, to become a two division world champion.
- Some of the best cardio in the game (most decision wins in the UFC), best fight IQ in the game with incredible gameplans, one of (if not thee) best MMA wrestlers despite never wrestling in HS or college, incredible striking (Freddie Roach says he is a top 5 boxer in mma), black belt in BJJ, and etc... Arguably the most well rounded fighter in MMA.

 

[Sarge3000]

Accomplishments:
- Won 33 consecutive rounds
- Most wins in UFC title fights (13) and won 12 of them in a row.
- Most wins in UFC history
- 3rd most consecutive title defenses with 9.
- Most title defenses in WW history.
- Most takedowns in UFC history
- Most wins over former UFC champions, with 9 wins over 7 champions ranging from lightweight to middleweight.
- Has beaten every man he has ever faced, avenging both of his only two losses in devestating fashion.
- GSP essentially beat every generation of fighters of his weight class. The previous generation of WW's, his generation of WW's, and the next generation of WW's. Took 4 years off in the fastest growing sport, and took his first fight back against a larger champion in a heavier weight division. Wins the fight in devestating and dominating fashion, to become a two division world champion.
- Some of the best cardio in the game (most decision wins in the UFC), best fight IQ in the game with incredible gameplans, one of (if not thee) best MMA wrestlers despite never wrestling in HS or college, incredible striking (Freddie Roach says he is a top 5 boxer in mma), black belt in BJJ, and etc... Arguably the most well rounded fighter in MMA.

A+++
Only thing that could disqualify GSP from GOAT list is being popped for PEDs (which he hasn't been, and he is THE MOST VOCAL in UFC for rigorous testing so he doesnt have an MO), or going on a Machida or Silva style losing streak.
And I believe the GSP we saw last Saturday is far from over in terms of fighting ability. I still saw greatness in the Octagon.

No he's not the most amazing wrestler in UFC.
No he's not the most amazing striker in UFC.
No he's not the most amazing BJJ artist in UFC.
Yet it's the fact he still was so dominant in his time, and never got popped for PEDs, that he is in top 3 GOAT.
And I will say, draw power (ability to make money) doesnt factor in my rankings. I only see cold hard statistics (win/loss ratio).

 

[Allan__Martel]

Salt

 

[lifelessheap]

Realistically there are 3 people up for the title of GOAT, Anderson, Jones and GSP. Unless Vaseline is on the USADA banned substance list I'm going for GSP as GOAT.

*Awaits the Fedor nuthuggers*

And Andy greased every fight. Blatantly greased on camera.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Ironically enough, the reason Penn did so well in the first fight was because he poked GSP in the eyes. You could argue that the Vaseline was payback for the eye pokes.

I suppose its debatable which is worse. Personally I'd rather fight someone who is greased than someone who's poking me in the eyes, but I guess everyone is different. BJ obviously feels that eye pokes aren't really cheating, but greasing is, so presumably he wouldn't have minded if GSP had poked him in the eyes instead of greasing.

What the hell sense does what you claim make? An accidental poke allows you to be "ok" with murder? We don't need to hear excuses as to why GSP greased, the fact is that he DID INDEED GREASE and it was to fight a much smaller man.