Greatest 'kick'boxer of all time

[SpawnOfNyarlathotep]

most people believe it was Schilts dominance that was responsible for the rule change

I don't believe it. Semmy was a lot bigger than his opponents. He was supposed to fuck them up. Size matters.

 

[Readybodisready]

to me being knocked out against insanely strong competitors do not take away any credit from hoost and Aerts

See that's the thing, these KO's and other losses were not only against "insanely stong competition".

Hoost making the mistake of getting stopped twice by a clown like Sapp, you don't think that hurts his legacy? Going 0-2 against Cikatic and 0-2 against Kaman with all losses being brutal KO's, although they were great, he never got one win against them. Is that the GOAT?

Aerts has it even worse. In 96 Bernardo was mostly a one dimensional boxer, he beat Peter 3 times in a row most by KO. He lost twice against Abidi once by KO. He lost twice against Leko, one of them one of the most brutal 1 punch KO's in K-1 ever. Are these guys really "insanely strong competition"? Not at all.

Imagine if the GOAT of boxing Ray Robinson had these type of losses in their prime, or Fedor, Anderson and GSP of MMA had so many brutal losses against mediocre fighters in their primes. 1 or 2 times ok, but it happened too many times.

What you described is more like Schilt. He only got stopped twice, against beasts like prime Ignashov and Hari. Later he still beat them both.

i dont think that a fighter is not one of the best because he was defeated more times than others,but because they able to fight against the best HW division on the history of the sport and both had the most success in it. I cant put Schilt opposition over Aerts and Hoost,their opponents werent more dangerous or best than Hoost and Aerts faced on their primes,but the opposite IMO

Name me one of them who could have beaten Schilt. Semmy goes unbeaten in the 90s. but his own record is still more impressive as below:

Young, most of them huge heavyweights:
-Bonjasky
-Hari
-Verhoeven
-Ghita
-Saki

Hoost didn't face them, and Peter lost against most of them.

And wins over all time greats like JLB and I already explained, Schilt did beat Aerts and Hoost when they were at their best. You can pick any version of them and they would not do any better. Schilt has the most superior resume by far.

bwaahahahahahahahahaha. aerts was an old fart in those years and he was a grand pa 10 years later. it's a testament to his longevity at the top and not his best years or his prime.

aerts his prime was in the nineties, there is no debate about that.

Facts are facts. The 4 year timeframe I mentioned from 04 through 07 when Peter was age 34-37 he went 15-3. He only lost to Hoost, and twice against Schilt. He beat everybody else like Bonjasky, JLB, Feitosa, Sefo, etc.

I remember how great he was doing during that time, he had so much fight IQ and improved skills during that time, only Schilt could stop him from becomeing champion. You think he was better before when he was getting knocked completely unconcious like every year by a boxer and guys like Leko and Abidi? lol no way.

 

[bluesnoopz]

Saitiev?!
KARELIN !!!

also

Messi?!
PELE !!!

+ if we're talking soccer:
Yashin of goalkeeping

mandatory pic insert:

 

[Hotora86]

mandatory pic insert:

+ mandatory quote

 

[Blazeblack]

Bob Sapp beat Hoost twice, the answer is obvious.

 

[jono83]

Aerts def takes the crown. Best career out of all with longevity. Nobody had Schilt's number like he did going 3-2 against him over their careers. He also fought the highest level of competition longer than anyone in the heavyweight division. Shit, the man beat Semmy and the other giant Sadik from glory when he was over 40 years old and took Rico to a decision at what? 44 years old or something.

 

[kneesus]

GOAT doesn't mean having the most skill, it means the biggest impact. If we're talking GOAT then it's gotta be Pele. Messi never won anything major with his national team and Pele won the World Cup thrice! Pele is regarded GOAT by pretty much every soccer website and analyst.

I agree with the sentiment about impact, but I think we need to be careful about conflating team achievements with individual greatness.
This is really endemic in hockey. Stanley Cup winners get fetishised to the point where bit players on winning teams get more credit than studs who came out on the wrong end. Again, results matter, and the Peles and Messis of the world have a disproportionate impact, but in team sports we need to be more nuanced.

 

[Hotora86]

I agree with the sentiment about impact, but I think we need to be careful about conflating team achievements with individual greatness.
This is really endemic in hockey. Stanley Cup winners get fetishised to the point where bit players on winning teams get more credit than studs who came out on the wrong end. Again, results matter, and the Peles and Messis of the world have a disproportionate impact, but in team sports we need to be more nuanced.

That's why I prefer to watch MMA where everything is always fair...
<{chips}>

 

[nino]

In Muaythai, you have Apidet, Diselnoi and Samart.

In boxing, you have Sugar Ray Robinson, and lots of other candidates I suppose.

Who is the greatest kickboxer of all time?

Giorgio Petrosyan,

 

[MoreKane]

legacy wise, do you guys put Aerts ahead of Hoost?

 

[Kanka]

People always mention Buakaw and Petrosyan (followed by Masato & Souwer) as GOAT candidates at 70 KG.

Sittichai arguably also deserves to be in the conversation; even when he loses a round or a fight, it is by a small margin.

What do you guys think?

 

[Tayski]

People always mention Buakaw and Petrosyan (followed by Masato & Souwer) as GOAT candidates at 70 KG.

Sittichai arguably also deserves to be in the conversation; even when he loses a round or a fight, it is by a small margin.

What do you guys think?

Well you can't deny he's up there among the best of all times at 70kg. I think a lot of people will however argue that the level of competition was slightly higher back during the prime K-1 max days than it is today, even though to be fair Sittichai is fighting the best of the best at that weight class.

I also think that people take someone's style into consideration, Sittichai completely shuts down his opponent and has great defence, but you also never really see him get out of his way to really destroy someone or finish a fight.

I'd definitely place him in the top5 greatest of all times with the 4 names you mentioned above, but perhaps keep Buakaw and Petrosyan slightly higher for now.

 

[Kanka]

Well you can't deny he's up there among the best of all times at 70kg. I think a lot of people will however argue that the level of competition was slightly higher back during the prime K-1 max days than it is today, even though to be fair Sittichai is fighting the best of the best at that weight class.

I am not sure if the level of competitors was necessarily higher. What was higher was the intensity (e.g. one night tournaments) and frequency of tough fights, especially so for Buakaw.

Apart from his stint in 2009, I don't think Petrosyan's level of competition was necessarily higher than that of Sittichai. Plus he was KO'd twice.

 

[noizer]

What makes all these heavyweights greater than guys like Buakaw, Masato, Andy Souwer, Petrosyan?

I think it depends on the criteria someone has. I think it is safe to say that Hoost, Aerts and Schilt would destroy any of the guys you mentioned due to the big weight difference. That alone is reason enough for alot of people to think that hw's are the better fighters which in a sense is true.

 

[Nova44]

I think it is safe to say that Hoost, Aerts and Schilt would destroy any of the guys you mentioned due to the big weight difference. That alone is reason enough for alot of people to think that hw's are the better fighters which in a sense is true.

That is not how it works.

 

[noizer]

That is not how it works.

You mean thats not how you think it works?

P4p talk is bullshit anyway. Everyone has a different opinion and criteria on the matter and there is no real way to determine who the best fighter really is. Thats my take anyway.

Btw i love watching the lower weight classes and i think the skill level overal is much higher then at HW.

 

[JustOnce]

People always mention Buakaw and Petrosyan (followed by Masato & Souwer) as GOAT candidates at 70 KG.

Sittichai arguably also deserves to be in the conversation; even when he loses a round or a fight, it is by a small margin.

What do you guys think?

I always thought Buakaw was better than Souwer, Masato and everyone else in k-1 max, just like Petrosyan was during his run.

I think it's just hard to put Sittichai on the same level with Buakaw, just because of the difference back then with the k-1 max at its highest point and the kickboxing scene afterwards, but I'm sure if they fought prime for prime, it would have been hella competitive.

I also think for whatever reason, Buakaw had a bit of star appeal to him. I can't point fingers on why exactly.

If you start putting Sittichsi in then you gotta put Superbon in too, and if you start putting Superbon in, then you gotta put Grigorian too.

I think it really comes down to how much one values Petro's undefeated run in comparison to other guys who were almost as good if not just as good but obviously didn't have that streak going, because usually Petrosyan is at the very top when people point to who they think is the best due to his run, not Buakaw.

Some may say Buakaw, but more iif not most would point to Petrosyan.

I think Petrosyan is probably most technically great than any other guys though.

 

[Crash Lance]

Why did the mods ban Jack Handy jr?

 

[wrestlefan]

Alerts got KOed by bums all the time.

 

[BoxingMMA]

At his best, when everything is working well, petrosian is the most skilled I’ve ever seen.

As for best? Who knows…. All I know is semmy won like 9999 k1 titles with a jab.