Greatest Canadian fighter? St. Pierre or Lewis?

McGruber said:
Yes. He would lose to all of them. Weight classes exist for a reason. Pick the worst HW on the roster and GSP would still lose.
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Are you suggesting the reason weight classes exist is because the best in one weight class can in no way beat the worst in a higher weight class?
 
WaylonMercy5150 said:


It was more about money and respect than anything. Bowe had just beaten Holyfield and the WBC said he had to defend against a relatively unknown boxer who was demanding more money. And Lewis was put in that position by beating Ruddock who after getting smoked by Tyson twice ended up in a title eliminator with Lewis by beating the monsters Greg Page and Phil Jackson! It was a pretty big step-down to fight Lewis who at that point wasn't thrilling anyone that much.

HBO did do a masterful job of selling Lewis as a great champion when he was under contract in his later years but he was never that popular. Outside of Tyson and Holyfield his PPVs put up numbers that were considered flops then and would be called disasters now.

Lewis would go on to dump two belts himself because of financial considerations so the Bowe focus has always seemed silly. But the media liked Lennox a lot better so it is what it is.

If people think the heavyweight division is bad now, take a look at some of the guys who were getting title shots back then. Like the aforementioned Phil Jackson who somehow ended up in a fight against Lewis when he was handed the WBC title.
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Lewis was an Olympic gold medalist with a stoppage win over Bowe in the amateurs who had just destroyed Ruddock; he was plenty deserving. There are a lot of promotional and organizational factors which contributed to Bowe chucking his title in the trash and ducking Lewis (Bowe himself wasn't scared of fighting Lewis, I don't think), but to somehow argue that Lewis ducked Bowe is just flat out making shit up. I'm saying this is as someone who thinks Bowe, at his best, was an excellent fighter who I might have actually favoured over Lewis at that point in time.

Lewis dumped a belt (after getting paid significantly by Don King to do so) so he didn't have to fight Byrd (no one in their right mind would have Byrd as a real threat for Lewis) which would allow him to pursue a Tyson fight. It's not the same as the Bowe situation, at all.

Lewis wasn't really massively popular, but he was very good, and he clearly has the best resume of any HW in that era, taking everything into account. More than that, it was an excellent era, overall. It was drastically better than the 00s or this current era.
 
As always, MMA fans prove how little they know about boxing.
 
JayE said:
Vitali definitely showed enough to warrant a rematch, but a fighter of Lewis's age with Lewis's accomplishment didn't have any obligation to give one.
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Thx man you own this thread
 
we have the queen on our money so wats the problem
 
pvora90266 said:
Are you suggesting the reason weight classes exist is because the best in one weight class can in no way beat the worst in a higher weight class?
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The worst in a much higher weight class. Yes. Rashad Coulter is ranked 30 in the UFC at HW. He would stop GSP in 1 round. I'm not going to play the strawman Ronda Rousey game of "under the right circumstances". It's retarded.
 
JayE said:
He "got out" when he was almost 40 and his would-be wife demanded that he quit the sport. A rematch would have been nice for everyone, but a near 40 year old who fought through maybe the deepest HW era in sport's history and came out with clearly the best resume from that era doesn't really owe anyone a rematch if he wants to retire.

Your criticisms of GSP are a little ridiculous, as well. His choice to fight Bisping was clearly opportunistic and should be viewed in context (he beat an old fighter who was barely one of the 10 best MWs in the world), but it's hardly the first time that has ever happened in prize fighting. Come to think of it, pretty much everything I've seen you post is ridiculous and tinged with a bizarre agenda.
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This exactly. Lewis not only beat the best of his generation, he also beat arguably the best fighter of the next generation too. He didn't owe anybody anything when he retired. I saw a lot of people say he was ducking people but I don't remember it like that at all. If anything, it seemed like everyone was avoiding him like the plague for a while there.
 
JayE said:
Lewis was an Olympic gold medalist with a stoppage win over Bowe in the amateurs who had just destroyed Ruddock; he was plenty deserving. There are a lot of promotional and organizational factors which contributed to Bowe chucking his title in the trash and ducking Lewis (Bowe himself wasn't scared of fighting Lewis, I don't think), but to somehow argue that Lewis ducked Bowe is just flat out making shit up. I'm saying this is as someone who thinks Bowe, at his best, was an excellent fighter who I might have actually favoured over Lewis at that point in time.

Lewis dumped a belt (after getting paid significantly by Don King to do so) so he didn't have to fight Byrd (no one in their right mind would have Byrd as a real threat for Lewis) which would allow him to pursue a Tyson fight. It's not the same as the Bowe situation, at all.

Lewis wasn't really massively popular, but he was very good, and he clearly has the best resume of any HW in that era, taking everything into account. More than that, it was an excellent era, overall. It was drastically better than the 00s or this current era.
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Well said my friend.
 
welcometohavoc said:
Except TS asked who the better fighter is, not boxer or fish.

GSP is the better fighter by virtue of being the best fighter in history
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McGruber said:
The worst in a much higher weight class. Yes. Rashad Coulter is ranked 30 in the UFC at HW. He would stop GSP in 1 round. I'm not going to play the strawman Ronda Rousey game of "under
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McGruber said:
The worst in a much higher weight class. Yes. Rashad Coulter is ranked 30 in the UFC at HW. He would stop GSP in 1 round. I'm not going to play the strawman Ronda Rousey game of "under the right circumstances". It's retarded.
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I'm not talking about the right circumstances. I don't think you understand how bad the bottom of the UFC really is at all weight classes. And how good the top guys really are. There's no way to prove this, so it is what it is.
 
pvora90266 said:
I'm not talking about the right circumstances. I don't think you understand how bad the bottom of the UFC really is at all weight classes. And how good the top guys really are. There's no way to prove this, so it is what it is.
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I'll remove any room for debate. The statement from whoever I quoted was that GSP is the greatest fighter in MMA.

Does he beat Cormier? Gus? Rumble? Stipe? Ngannou? Cain? No. So he isn't. He's the greatest WW. That's all.

Why this even became a debate to begin with is ridiculous.
 
McGruber said:
I'll remove any room for debate. The statement from whoever I quoted was that GSP is the greatest fighter in MMA.

Does he beat Cormier? Gus? Rumble? Stipe? Ngannou? Cain? No. So he isn't. He's the greatest WW. That's all.

Why this even became a debate to begin with is ridiculous.
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Sorry I didn't make it clear what I disputed then. While I agree with that. I don't agree with he can't win at HW. But I do agree he can't become ranked there. I just think the bottom of the weight class is soft enough for him to win.
 
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