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Discussion in 'Sports Bar' started by Bluntforce420, Apr 1, 2018.
Yeah, I had him in there too.
GOAT yips sufferers, lol. Nice.
Didn't see your list, just read the second post. Good call.
To me Hornsby is the greatest 2B of all time. Morgan and Sandberg were better defensive players than him and achieved more GG’s. Yet offensively Hornsby’s numbers hold up better. It begs another question, how much do people value the team a player is on? Morgan was part of a dynasty Reds team.
I kind of love that no one is even suggesting Collins, because I have him third but I've seen him 1st on plenty of lists.
And I think the longevity issue gets overlooked in Hornsby's case because his prime is so amazing. Yes, he hung on for years playing minimally, but his career is effectively over at 33. He wins his second MVP and then nose dives off a cliff with injuries. Morgan was still a very good player (not real Joe Morgan, but good none the less) into his late 30's. Collins is still one of the best in the game in his late 30's.
Does Arod get ranked as a SS or a 3B? If 3rd baseman, is he GOAT?
collins didnt get enough home runs for people to remember him enough i dont think. but he did some amazing things. its really incredible that some players strike out more in 2 years than he struck out in 25 years. he also stole quite a few bases. he just got overshadowed by his early contemporaries like cobb and later by the likes of ruth. so he ends up being mostly forgotten
kind of even really. if you go strictly by the games he spent at third i think he is well short of the likes of brett, schmidt and chipper jones. obviously he is better for an overall career though than those guys.
I see your skinny jeans are restricting the blood flow to your walnut sized brain...
as to the said topic here is the king...
lol at anyone who calls Arod a better
3B than Mike Schmidt. There I said it.
What about Pete Rose?
Well if you're giving ARod credit for his whole career, but ranking him as a 3rd baseman, Arod blows him out of the water. Schmidt is a bit of a better defensive 3rd baseman (but Arod was pretty good there), while Arod was also an excellent SS before that. Their offensive numbers aren't really that close. Arod has 150 HR on him, which is Schmidt's main claim to top 3rd baseman. He hit 30 points higher. OBP was the same, but Arod beats him SLG too. Arod has him by 500 runs and RBI, 150 SB (with fewer CS). Even adjusting for eras, ARod's peak seasons are more valuable than Schmidt's.
It's really all about how you factor in the Roids and/or deal with ARod splitting his career at 3B/SS.
Side note (not related to ARod), the current drug testing and banned substances policies have modern (not true steroid era, but now) players at a historical disadvantage. Modern players who rival anyone from the live ball era on are doing it without amphetamines, which kept guys like Mays, Mantle, Schmidt, Williams, and on and on going for years. So if Trout ends up putting Willie Mays numbers (without popping at some point) I actually have to say he'd get a bit of a leg up on Mays.
They should tell Rose that he'll go in once he's dead, except he'd immediately off himself.
Rose knew damn well what he was doing. It's why he knew to lie about it for decades until they dangled letting him back into the game in front of him. Fuck him. His achievements are all over the HOF, he just doesn't have a player's plaque. I'm fine with it.
It's a completely separate issue from the steroids and shouldn't be conflated with it. Cheating to win is different than putting yourself in a situation where you may get squeezed to throw games (or just choose to for financial gain). Gambling completely destroyed the integrity and credibility of the sport at one point. Every clubhouse in the league has enormous signs all over them reminding people not to gamble on the game. It's been the cardinal sin of baseball for a century now and the precedent was long set. Steroids were vaguely banned (mind you there was no real policy, just some words in the recreational drug policy that sort of referred to performance enhancers) with zero testing and enforcement until after Barry's (Mac's, Sosa's, etc.) best years.
Yes I was stirring the pot with that one. I do think cheating is a big deal, just look at the black cloud image the NFL has because of the New England Patriots and spy gate. To me cheating is still cheating at the end of the day. No gambling or cheating should be allowed.
Rose also basically #MeToo ed himself last year.
John Dowd said he slept with and underage girl in some random interview nobody heard about. So Rose sued him for defamation and during discovery it turned out that he did sleep with an underage girl. She had no want to com out with the story but she had testify after being subpoenaed for the lawsuit lol
12 years at 3rd
Like just BARELY under 10 at SS.
He's a 3rd baseman.
Rose gambled on games he managed. A bit different than the whole PED issue IMO.
The counter argument is that he split a lot of time between 3B and DH after the move. He played more games/innings at SS than at 3B specifically. And despite winning two of his MVPs in NY, his years at SS were overall more productive. Plus he was still the best SS on his team, they just weren't going to move the most iconic Yankee since Mantle off his position.
I'm kind of split. If he's 3B, he's #1 (unless you're just disregarding him, which is boring). If he's SS he's #2, I still have Wagner #1.
Michael Jack Schmidt is the GOAT 3rd baseman with George Brett 2nd.
A-Roid is a pansy, and Schmidt's mustache would kick A-Roids ass.