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Who was better in the past 40 years? He was a 3x MVP before anyone claims he touched roids.
clean or juiced? really
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Greatest Baseball Player of All Time?
- Thread starter Bluntforce420
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anything bonds achieved has to have an asterisk next to it.
cheater, doper, liar.
sugar coal it all you want, "everyone was doing it" etc. dude's a fraud.
all his previous numbers are called into question IMO.
plus, I've met the dude at a media day, total douchebag ego maniac.
and I've been a Giant's fan since The Count pitched in the 70s
cheater, doper, liar.
sugar coal it all you want, "everyone was doing it" etc. dude's a fraud.
all his previous numbers are called into question IMO.
plus, I've met the dude at a media day, total douchebag ego maniac.
and I've been a Giant's fan since The Count pitched in the 70s
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I'm amazed you would put Mantle in the second tier.
My friends in NYC used to have epic debates over Mantle, Williams, and Musial.
*Edit* I'm also really disappointed that the forum isn't showing Jackie Robinson the love he deserves.
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I'm not an Angel's fan or a Mike Trout fan really, but I do hope he can stay healthy. If he keeps his current pace and stays healthy into his 30's he's top 5 material. If he manages to regress slowly through his 30's and have a really long career he could fight it out with Ruth. Seriously, this guy is off to the greatest start to a career (begun at age 19) I think probably ever. Maybe there is someone I'm forgetting but in 6 'full' seasons, he's won 2 MVP's, finished 2nd 3 times and 4th in a season where he was on pace to win again, but missed 50 games. All by the age of 25. Anyone think of someone with a better start?
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Only because he's a tick behind the guys in the top tier due to longevity issues. Just prime for prime, Mantle rivals nearly anyone. And I give Williams a boost for losing several prime years fighting 2 wars. Williams is statistically a little ahead of him anyways. Musial's career is about even with Mantle, maybe even a tick ahead because he lasted a lot longer. Prime, I'll take Mantle because of the power advantage. They had different games, but Musials' better average is hard for me to judge since Mantle still has a better OBP and had to deal with declining in the greatest pitcher's era since the live ball.
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stan also lost one year in his prime because of military service. had he played he would have been over 500 home runs and closer to 4000 hits. i think he is pretty clearly over Mantle.
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he is certainly in the discussion. Ty Cobb, Mel Ott, jimmy foxx and ted williams would be the likely contenders along with trout for that crown of young players being great
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jackie was great, but nobody i can think of has him anywhere near the top 25 or so
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A big part of that was because he was routinely getting called "out" when he was as safe as the space in a rainbow-plastered college dorm. There was a ton of people in the sport across all levels that desperately wanted him to fail.
I'm biased. My history project I took to the State History Day finals in 8th grade was on Jackie. His athletic supremacy was for the ages. His versatility as a baseball player was probably unrivaled.
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I can make an argument for Robinson in the top 25, especially if you credit him with being a great player before the age of 28, which he was. Statistically he's one of the most underrated defensive 2nd basemen ever. Even though he started to slow after only a few years in the majors, he still got to more balls than anyone at 2nd or 1st (after the move). He was instinctual in setting himself up, kind of like Cal Ripken (who couldn't actually range far, but somehow knew where people were going to hit the ball). He completely changed the game, reintroducing base stealing as a real thing that can impact games (his SB numbers look lulzy these days, but the Major Leagues were doing almost zero running by the time he showed up). His lifetime OBP of .409 is impressive in any era. And he did it all with a giant bullseye on his back, while finishing in the MVP voting all but 2 years late in his NL career and winning one.
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I don't think the one year off cost Musial 500. The two years before that year of service he hit 12 and 13 HR. The two years following, he hit 16 and 19. Only reason to think he would have hit 25+ is that a lot of the pitchers were in military service that year. I don't think 500 matters much for Musial's greatness though. No one argues he was the best slugger of the 40's/50's, they argue he was the best hitter (personally, I'll take Williams in that argument, but whatever). I do think his total body of work is greater than Mantle's, but Mantle's domination of the 50's and early 60's is just incredible. Musial is more consistent, but Mantle's peaks are higher. I think it's one of the best arguments in baseball, personally.
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I had forgotten to look up Ott's numbers, thanks. Yeah, there are obviously a billion different context matters to consider judging across these eras (not to mention that Williams starts losing 3 years right there in year 5). Foxx was who I originally was thinking about, but I'd still lean Trout, just off the immediate impact (even dropping Foxx's very young partial seasons). Plus Foxx and Ott come up during the greatest offensive era in baseball history. Their numbers are incredible, but half the league is hitting .300 at that time. Regardless, Trout is in a conversation with 4 HOFers and 2 top 5-7 players of all time.
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I love Edgar, but since I enjoy arguing baseball, I'm going to call bullshit on the 'best right handed hitter of his era' tag that has been bestowed upon him. I'll take Frank Thomas in a walk on that issue.
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Mariners homer like I said...
Fuck Frank Thomas, fuck his family, and fuck his offspring. Edgar for life!
The first two sports memories I have are these:
That second one.... talk about the Mariners being such a fucking disappointment ever since that and the 116 wins year.
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I'm no Yankees fan, but I was always a little sad for Mattingly that that's how his only trip to the 'yoffs went. Was a great moment though. First year with the wild card round and we got a great series.
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It just frustrates me so much to have seen some of the greatest regular season performances and amazing post-season ones for the Mariners to just shit the bed like the next series after.
