Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Combat Wombatt, Feb 7, 2018.
He had a losing record
Great wrestler would be someone like kos: an all American/NCAA champ
Regardless of the record, his wrestling was very effective in mma and not much people could stop it.
Gus taking down DC was a surprise to most but the dude has developed some really strong wrestling. A lot of these guys who aren't considered wrestlers or that have no significant competitive wrestling background pre-MMA have interesting stories wrestling-wise.
By the time Gustafsson had fought Jones and DC he had spent close to a decade training with some of the very best Greco roman guys in the world (Jimmy Lidberg, Mark Madsen, etc) and rounded that out with training with guys like Phil Davis.
GSP spent a similar amount of time training with Canada's best wrestlers. Some of these guys were Olympic medalists and/or world champs (Guiva Sissouri, David Zilberman, etc). GSP also spent a whole lot of time training with the University of Northern Colorado wrestling team.
Even Robert Whitaker. He comes out of nowhere and hangs with Yoel Romero in the wrestling game. Whitaker has made it his business to become a great wrestler. Australia has traditionally had week wrestling. But there are a few really good wrestlers there from Uzbekistan, Albania, Iran and they are all plugged into the MMA community. Whitaker has trained with all of them and even became the Australian national freestyle champ.
In Dan's defense though, he was a Greco specialist. You'd have to go waaaaay back in his career to find any impressive freestyle or American folk style accomplishments.
People dont want to hear this, people know and think what they already know and think. Being confronted with logic, information and new perspectives isn't what people want.
Every fight is different, and not all significant strikes are created equal, so it could still depend, but if it is one of those fights where nothing happens, you may as well give it to the guy who got the TD.
Also, one thing to elaborate on though, there are some TD's that should definitely count for much more than a significant strike. The examples being DC's huge slams where the impact itself is damaging. Others, such as the "Ah hah! You're off balance, time to fall onto you" type of TD's obviously shouldn't cunt for much.
But its so damn interesting. Their loss I guess.
Chuck is an interesting case and Id love to know more about his career. Like how many big wins did he score? Did he ever qualify for nationals? stuff like that. So far the most Ive been able to dig up is that he had incredible cardio as a wrestler and he was actually a California State freestyle champ in High School which is very impressive.
But it's not simple and it challenges what they already know and what MMA gyms, fighters and UFC preach.
Hes making his face red!!!!! HAHAHAHHAHAHA I used to try to get kids to do this constantly. They would pass out and Id crack up!! Fuc*ing kids, so mean.
Randy was an NCAA DI All American 3 times though. And he was runner up twice. He did have some good TDD though so I wouldn't lump him in with Hendo.
Agree with that however in any athletic competition you wanna reward offense rather than defence
So that’s why the
guy pressing > guy couterpunching
Guy going td > guy pulling guard
How many elite wrestlers did he outwrestle?
Also to Yoel’s credit is, you can’t keep the dude down, he springs right back up. Kind of a waste of energy for the dude going for the takedown.
Looking at this objectively, I'd say Fitch's most impressive wrestling performances were against Burkman (decorated HS wrestler in a relatively week wrestling state), Brock Larson (decorated HS wrestler in a top 3 wrestling state), Mike pierce (2x NCAA DI All American), and though Thiago Alves wasn't a decorated wrestler, at the time of the 2nd Fitch fight he was completely dominated by Fitch in the wrestling dept. I find this extremely impressive bc this version of Thiago was training with some very good wrestlers and he was a huge, strong, WW whos entire style was suited to defeat wrestlers. I also think the Chris Wilson win was very impressive from a wrestling perspective. Im not sure of Wilson's wrestling credentials but he was a longtime Team Quest guy and Team Quest was know for producing top wrestlers.
How many guys have outwrestled Mo? I cant recal anyone outwrestling him but I haven't watched all of his fights.
The fight that really sticks out to me is the fight with Faijao Calvalcante. You had a guy who made the Olympic team getting pushed around by a roided up BJJ artist with no wrestling background.
Faijao is just a huge lhw, while king Mo could be a mw
He also beat Yoel
Hendos win over fejioa looks really impressive considering he’s around same size as king Mo n Yoel (probably smaller)
Shields, Fitch, story, sonnen -- all taken down pretty easily by Maia.
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