Grapevine Submission?

Jimmy Cerra

Jimmy Cerra

Amateur Fighter
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I was rolling with this dude and got full mount. He didn't have much experience, but he was a little squirmy. So I grapevined his legs, pressed down with my hips, and arched my back. The intent was simply to stablize my position for a second while stretching my partner out and making it a little uncomfortable for him. However, he tapped from the grapevine. :redface:

My instructor said that was a dangerous submission on the knees - one of those you don't do in practice but are good in competition (like heal hooks and some neck cranks, I guess). However, I never heard of this submission before, and I was simply trying to stablise my position. What kind of sub is this, what's its name, and how do you properly peform the technique (I don't count accidents as knowing how to do it)?
 
Your friend is a pussy. If he tapped just because you got your hooks in to block his sweep attempts and the guy tapped, he's a pussy. Does he tap to knee on the belly too?
 
Hey guys! First post here at Sherdog.com

I tapped to that once in Judo class, but that was because I had the nastiest of nasty bruises running up and down my shins. I was told to just circle your legs out to stop that grapevining.

I dont know if it would be a submission since it is easy to just circle your legs out and be done with said submission. Perhaps a higher ranked person could tell you more.

Just my two cents
 
There is a sub you can get from the grapevines, but not exactly how you discribed. Also, I've found that it is rare to get on anyone who has any grappling experience.

Mount grapevines in. With your grapevines bring your opponents heels as close to his butt as you can. Now slowly try to stand by walking your hands up and trying to get your heels flat on the mat with the grapevines in.
 
Superbeast: he is not a pussy. He is just new, and you are not a good mod of good character!

Ybot: What does that strain? The back?
 
Frodo said:
Superbeast: he is not a pussy. He is just new, and you are not a good mod of good character!
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Your opponent was a pussy. Don't deny it. Even if your rolling for the first time, you don't tap out to discomfort (especially from a grapevine).

And I don't know how pointing out fact makes SuperBeast someone of questionable character.

lol....
 
Look closer to find why I made that quip. In any case, you are wrong about my opponent too. How can you judge him when you don't even know him? I rolled with many people, and I think some of them are pussies. This kid wasn't one of them however.
 
Frodo said:
I was rolling with this dude and got full mount. He didn't have much experience, but he was a little squirmy. So I grapevined his legs, pressed down with my hips, and arched my back. The intent was simply to stablize my position for a second while stretching my partner out and making it a little uncomfortable for him. However, he tapped from the grapevine. :redface:

My instructor said that was a dangerous submission on the knees - one of those you don't do in practice but are good in competition (like heal hooks and some neck cranks, I guess). However, I never heard of this submission before, and I was simply trying to stablise my position. What kind of sub is this, what's its name, and how do you properly peform the technique (I don't count accidents as knowing how to do it)?
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Either one of two things. It could've been that he thought you had a submission on, and didn't want to risk it?

The one I'm betting is just pure frustration. Newer guys sometimes just get put in positions and they feel like all they want to to is get out. Which would explain why he was so squirmy. He obviously doesn't like being pinned. You got full mount, he was probably exhausted from squirming so much, and now you're compressing him.

Superbeast, that doesn't make him a pussy, that makes him new. When I started MMA, there are so many RNCs that I got tapped with. Nowadays, you have to almost choke me out to get me to tap from one; I start peeling off hands and pretty much, unless I'm about to pass out, I don't tap. It's because I know my limits. I'm not trying to be a meathead, I'm practicing escaping chokes because there's more leeway. I'll tap when there's definitely no escape. However, new guys don't understand that, and they don't know their limits. They think "Oh shit, I'm stuck," and tap out.

It's like when you start driving. Did you floor the car the first time you drove it? Of course not, it was a little scary just bringing the thing up 30 on the first day. But now that you've been doing it for a while, you know what you're doing. That doesn't make new drivers pussies, it makes them more cautious and less experienced.
 
Iceman5592 said:
Either one of two things. It could've been that he thought you had a submission on, and didn't want to risk it?

The one I'm betting is just pure frustration. Newer guys sometimes just get put in positions and they feel like all they want to to is get out. Which would explain why he was so squirmy. He obviously doesn't like being pinned. You got full mount, he was probably exhausted from squirming so much, and now you're compressing him.

Superbeast, that doesn't make him a pussy, that makes him new. When I started MMA, there are so many RNCs that I got tapped with. Nowadays, you have to almost choke me out to get me to tap from one; I start peeling off hands and pretty much, unless I'm about to pass out, I don't tap. It's because I know my limits. I'm not trying to be a meathead, I'm practicing escaping chokes because there's more leeway. I'll tap when there's definitely no escape. However, new guys don't understand that, and they don't know their limits. They think "Oh shit, I'm stuck," and tap out.

It's like when you start driving. Did you floor the car the first time you drove it? Of course not, it was a little scary just bringing the thing up 30 on the first day. But now that you've been doing it for a while, you know what you're doing. That doesn't make new drivers pussies, it makes them more cautious and less experienced.
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Exactly. One of my training partners used to tap every time I pinned him in N/S and put my chest on his face looking to transition to a kimura.....I was beginning to think that I must have the funkiest armpits eva! Turned out that he was just new to grappling, and also suffered from claustrophobia. Now he knows that it
 
Don't slight tapping to knee on belly either. Superbeast is a really big guy, as I recall, and knee on belly no doubt doesn't bother him. Smaller guys can get crushed hard with knee on belly, if there's any weight on it.
 
Zankou said:
Don't slight tapping to knee on belly either. Superbeast is a really big guy, as I recall, and knee on belly no doubt doesn't bother him. Smaller guys can get crushed hard with knee on belly, if there's any weight on it.
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I
 
Brooklyn said:
There is a difference tapping out to a 250 pound guy who has his knee dead-center on your solar plexus while he is craking your neck and tapping to a grapevine.
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He wasn
 
Frodo said:
Superbeast: he is not a pussy. He is just new, and you are not a good mod of good character!
Click to expand...

I could understand if he was headlocked and you were crushing his head and giving him cauli ears, but all you did was push your hips into his. Iceman, I was a newb once too on the mats and tapped early to sub attempts, but come on, tapping out to a controlling position? If he tapped to a guy securing mount he's a pussy IMO. Tapping to a submission? Fine. Tapping to a position? Come on, dude. It's not even like it was a 100 kilo side control situation. That I could understand to an extent because some guys can put the pressure on so it feel like your head is about to burst. But grapevine mount? Just grappling, no strikes? Come on.

Incidentally I am not a big guy at all, 5'5' and about 165lbs, and I've had big dudes like Nog and Leo Negao kneeride me which is far from pleasant and made me regret drinking the night before, but just on principle I will always try to escape a position. Maybe I'm just a stubborn bastard who doesn't mind the pain but that's me.
 
Tony Cecchine has some interesting grapevine subs on his videos. Good stuff.
 
I was a victim of a similar grapevine. It was like 2-3 months ago, and I don't even remember it. Not sure if I was top or bottom, but somehow my partner got my legs grapevined, and he extended or spread his legs. It hurt like a bitch, fortunately, I was able to free my legs, otherwise I might have tapped. My shins were bruised for like 2 weeks.
 
I was told they out lawed the grapevine in Judo because it resulted in knee injuries.. Ive never had a problem with it.
 
Maybe I've missed something along the way, but what in the hell is the "grapevine"? I have an idea, but I want to be sure. It sounds like another move "renamed" by Eddie Bravo or something
 
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