Grand Jury report on Catholic Church sex abuse in Pennsylvania

[spamking]

It's in the bible. When the NT bible was written, the concept of the church as the bride of christ was already there, thus Christians back then could already claim it. Now if you're referring practice of choosing a certain female by a religious figure as a bride of god due to the said figure as representative of god, it's from way back before Christianity. The church just inherited it, just like Christmas and sunday.

I honestly have no idea if I've replied to this already . . . so apologies if I did . . .

I fully understand the concept of the church being seen as the bride of Christ . . . regardless, my statement about popes, priests and preachers comparing themselves to Christ and how idiotic and wrong it is still stands.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

I honestly think that arguing on a forum about what the scriptures teach causes more harm to Christianity than good. It shows division to the world and animosity rather than love. I don't mind discussing things but when the tone gets to a certain place it's counterproductive.

Non believers see 37,000 different sects of Christianity and each one throwing scriptures at the other as all the proof they need to discount the whole enterprise.

As far as celibacy being connected to deep.spirituality you just need to read Christian history especially the first 300 years or so. We have a lot of literature from that time written by many celibates. Being exposed to the early Christians leaders writhing changed my life radically. I had never in my life heard anyone speak like they do and did. For me the depth was so profound that I am at pains to even describe it.

They speak of the same scriptures as anyone but their understanding, the depth at which they accessed Christ just blew me away. Athanasius, Gregory, John Chrysostum, etc. These people changed my life profoundly. I would.consider my life a great poverty had I not been exposed to their writings.

Of course no one including me is saying you can't get deep spirituality without celibacy.... only that for many there can be a benefit from stints of it and for some a whole lifetime of it.

I have read your posts on this thread with interest. Not so much because I am religious, but your level of piety is so rare. In the levels of high clergy, I don’t think your type of devotion exists except as an exception. Yet your views do not appear dogmatic.
You really sound like an anachronism. Celibacy has deep historical roots (even predating Christianity) but today is relegated to those that isolate and devote themselves to their faith. As we’ve seen, even those that vow adherence to chastity generally don’t uphold their vows.
Yet you did so for 10 years, which I find both amazing and fascinating. And you did it while married, not isolated in a mountain temple.

Would you be willing to elaborate on your decision? I have many questions.
What did your wife think?
Why marry if you are going to remain celibate?
What age were you when you began celibacy?
You say you teach meditation; why did you not pursue a position in the Church? (Or did you?)

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Im disappointed at Sherdog's lack of knowledge about the Borja.

Its almost as if they didnt play Assassin's Creed 2.

Guilty.

 

[franklinstower]

I have read your posts on this thread with interest. Not so much because I am religious, but your level of piety is so rare. In the levels of high clergy, I don’t think your type of devotion exists except as an exception. Yet your views do not appear dogmatic.
You really sound like an anachronism. Celibacy has deep historical roots (even predating Christianity) but today is relegated to those that isolate and devote themselves to their faith. As we’ve seen, even those that vow adherence to chastity generally don’t uphold their vows.
Yet you did so for 10 years, which I find both amazing and fascinating. And you did it while married, not isolated in a mountain temple.

Would you be willing to elaborate on your decision? I have many questions.
What did your wife think?
Why marry if you are going to remain celibate?
What age were you when you began celibacy?
You say you teach meditation; why did you not pursue a position in the Church? (Or did you?)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply man.

My wife and I both led pretty wild lives in our earlier years and when we married we both felt called to follow a deep spiritual path and ended up becoming Catholic. I had about five years of serious meditation practice by then but more from an eastern background.

After a few years of marriage and some sexual problems my wife discovered that she had experienced severe systematic sexual abuse and neglect for most of her life. She just felt like she could not engage in sexuality without it being/feeling exploitative and hurtful.

Meanwhile I had started studying contemplative prayer under a Trappist monk and had been reading the lives of the saints especially John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila and the desert fathers. I had by then made a lifelong commitment to adapting monastic.spirituality to the married life.

Celibacy seemed like a really good approach for both my wife and I given our circumstances and we embraced it willingly. For a time I thought maybe we were being called to it permanently but after a number of years that passed away and we once again entered into a sexual relationship. In my past I had been pretty loose sexually and had come to objectify women while also seeking intense sexuality through tantric methods.

Our period of celibacy healed all of my wife's sexual dissorder, healed my tendency to be inordinately attracted to other women and enabled us to enter into a sexual relationship as if we had never had other lovers or past pain. I can only describe it as holy but without being prudish in any way. The level of trust and love is all I was ever seeking-- It's incredible actually.


I described myself as semi Catholic earlier in the thread. I suppose that is why I never considered too seriously being a priest. I lay at the feet of the contemplative Christian tradition and the holiness they have maintained and passed down - it is my foundation. However my interest is in adapting that form of spirituality to the lay person and to married life and that is something a bit new and there is no religious blueprint for it.

 

[babycart]

Unlikely. These perverts aren't engaging in this crime because they're not allowed to pursue women. They're engaged in this crime because they're sick fucks. Would they stop becoming priests if other priests are allowed to fuck women? Not in my opinion.

No, but if they are required to marry women (as Paul of Tarsus explicitly states), it'll drive them away.

Thanks.

Every religion has had sex scandals. But the Catholic Church has this huge pedo problem. And you have to look at your requirements for priests.

As I've said, it's not even Biblical to require this.

Remove the Pauline writings then it's biblical...

Just my opinion, but a celibacy requirement isn't gonna attract a normal guy to that occupation. Most normal guys look forward to someday experiencing sex with a woman.

Same with Taoist abstinence. Not ejaculating to preserve 'essence?' Most potent guys wouldn't even dare.

The bible is full of fear for the human body, and especially the female. It is also full of the idea of "purity" in the context of fear relating to sex, or even sexual thoughts outside of marriage. This is clearly expressed in the freakish celibacy of the priests and the nuns.

Also, countless priests have been giving children "pastoral care" in the form of countless rapes and torture sessions over a period of nearly 2000 years. If we are seeing this today, just imagine what was happening when the Church had legitimate power over life and death within it's dominions.

Beware the Inquisition!

I personally think pedos become priests and not the other way around.

Yup, cuz celibacy empowers them. When you got a wife and she's dissatisfied with your performance due to other stuff, shit happens. Trust me, women are keen on this. Hard to take charge of your own house (as Paul sez) when the missus is angry cuz you are busy with priestbear stuff.

With celibacy, yay, none of that! You are holy cuz you are celibate. Easier to devote time to cover up your misdeeds.