Gracie Combatives - What the hell?

Again a standard hasn't been defined here about how we determine if a person has character or not.
You're looking for a set of qualifications for each belt. It's not so complicated. Just from a teacher-student interaction its easy to tell who are dicks and who aren't. And I surmise that with all the BS that is spreading throughout the BJJ world these days, more and more instructors are going to be wary about who they promote to advanced ranks.

I've watched a lot of bjj classes. At what point is the instructor supposed to talk to someone and find out their goals? Is this part of the regularly scheduled class? Is this an extra-curricular activity. Its been 14 years and I have never heard an instructor ask me what my goals are. Frankly its none of his business as I'm just there to learn jiu-jitsu. Thats my goal.
Just comes up in conversation. I admit this would be difficult at a much larger school, but even then whoever puts you up for promotion probably knows you well enough.

You can usually figure out that the guy working a 9 to 5 with two kids and another on the way is probably not gunning for the Mundials, while the gym rat who is planning on going to every tournament he can afford has different aspirations. Human interaction. You can get to know a person pretty well that way. Again, doesn't have to be so rigid with the "give me a list of your goals."

And speaking of goals what if my goal is to do something that disagrees with the instructor? Does this mean I then don't have character in his eyes?
People with all walks of life train. If an instructor tries to force his own agenda on people, probably won't have many students left after awhile.

One can certainly see a student persevere. But that's really a no-brainer. If the guy keeps showing up then he passes that character test.
Actually no. It's more than just showing up to class. It's seeing how someone deals with failure. When they get tapped do they allow ego to get in the way? Do they ask questions about what they can improve on? Do they continue to try whatever they're screwing up, in free rolling, giving up positions to actively work on something they're bad at?

Observing their attitudes? About what? Jiu-jitsu, getting beat, winning, etc. Sure you can see some things fairly easily but really a majority of most students lives will not be observable unless you decided to follow them around 24/7.
Are they boisterous and swearing in the gym? Do they waste time on the mat talking about latest tuf? Do they stay after to help mop up? Do they leave their empty water bottles around? Do they push around the white belts during rolling or do they help them out? Again, it's simple observation. You don't have to know their personalities in great detail, it's just getting to know someone.

What if the student thinks the instructors character is in question? Then what?!? Maybe there is an aspect of his instructors life that the student thinks needs improving. Does this mean the student is right and the instructor is wrong. Or does the instructors "character" trump the student's?
If the student has a problem with the instructor, he can talk to him about it?

I don't see a way that this can be resolved but then I don't think it should be an issue. I don't go to jiu-jitsu for character building or some such tripe. I go to learn jiu-jitsu. Period.
I'd mostly agree. I think belts should be about skill representation, period. But again, with all the BS thats spreading in BJJ, I wouldn't disagree with an instructor who wants to get to know what kind of person he's promoting. What's the first thing BJJ folks ask each other when they meet? "Who/where do u train under."

And really, it's not an intricate process. It's just getting to know someone. Again, human interaction. I don't think you can know a person simply by rolling with them once. But you can learn alot from someone from watching them train, training with them, and talking to them every now and then as you form a bond over time.
 
@jimmy cerra You lay some interesting arguments and I see some of your points. But, again it comes to basic business fundamentals. The Gracie Combatives are not only well done, sequential and offer a standardized set of required learning objectives IT MAKES GOOD BUSINESS SENSE. This is America. It's free market, capitalism. It's the capitalism you love and everyone in America loves. You can't have it both ways.
Are you kidding? Commercialism has pretty much destroyed the "TMA"s in the US. Do you really want BJJ to go that way?

Did you and everyone else here complaining about the Gracie Combatives ever stop and think "did the Gracies get into teaching their brand of martial art so that only a handful of people would know about it?" Do you think the Gracies wanted to be unknown and let only a few select few learn their brand of martial art? Again, that's snobby and very very narrow minded.
The Gracies want to be able to market their brand globally, which they are doing. Does it make it any less effective? NO. It all depends on the individual. Just like going to College, what you put in is what you get out. You can be an average student by doing the minimum or you can push yourself to excel and stand out from the pack.
The Gracies have a curriculum, which a majority of standard BJJ gyms don't have. That's a fact. Many BJJ gyms just throw beginners in with the group. Those who can hang with the higher belts get promoted over time. Those who can't hang either drop out or wait a long time for promotion. The Gracies offer a set curriculum, which is a way I prefer to learn. I want to know there are objectives and specific techniques that are required before moving to the next level.
Gracie Barra has a set curriculum. And they're also looking to spread jiujitsu across the world. By putting a GB academy in every city. Not by advocating the "blind leading the blind" in garages.

You people shouldn't care what others are doing. Like I said before, the Gracie Combatives offer people a chance to learn and practice with friends and family. It is helping people in more ways than one. If they help someone out of a tough spot or a women is able to defend herself against a rapist then it was useful. Maybe it just allows friends to train together who cannot afford the inflated gym prices.
We care because we love BJJ. Sure if you have no BJJ academies in your area, fine, there's not much you can do but learning from secondary resources. But it seems like alot of people who can't hack it in a real gym are just using this as a shortcut.

By reading many of the posts here it comes down to your secret little club. You don't want anyone else to know about it.
Just do what you are doing, enjoy it and stop being concerned that someone out in the world is learning Gracie jujitsu via DVD and may take a test for blue belt.
Unbelievable how hung up many of you are about it. Martial Arts in America is a business. That's a fact you need to accept ASAP.
Nope. Not going to accept it, not for BJJ. Commercialism is not an excuse for watering down quality and integrity of the system.
 
From what Liechen has described it sounds like a secret club, a gang. call it what you will. And, by the time you get your black belt you will have spent between 9,000-10,000 dollars on monthly memberships fees (wait,they call it Gym Dues). I hope it is money well spent. It is a bad investment from an economic point of view because you won't get a return on your money.
Right. Going to Harvard is a total waste, everyone should go to DeVry, because it is cheaper.

The majority of people just want to be able to defend themselves and/or get physically fit. Again, the Gracie Combatives offer that opportunity.
Fighting in the ring with rules is very different from fighting for your life on the street.
Pulling someone into your guard on the street is dangerous. The guy could have a punch knife or four friends.
No one said ring and street are the same. And if your attacker has a knife and four friends, I don't care what you study, you're screwed.

What I know of Bjj Gyms they don't practice defense against weapons. Friends I have that study Bjj have told me they have never gone over weapons defense. Maybe someone here can give more insight on that.
Some do, some don't. Sometimes even instructor dependent.
 
I'd be interested to know exactly what they mean by "perfects their understanding and execution of the Gracie Combatives techniques".

Also, judging by the "two times per year you can arrange to have a Gracie Academy Head Instructor visit to evaluate all fourth degree white belt holders and award blue belts to those who qualify", it would appear that there is an element of assessment by someone who has at least some idea of what they're doing as opposed to 2 week instructors.

As far as I can tell, the wording doesn't make it absolutely clear what is required for the blue belt, or indeed if it isn't a 'Gracie Combatives' blue belt rather than GJJ/BJJ. However, even if that proves to be at all mitigating, the various other details - like NDAs - remain concerning.

You need to watch the videos to see what's required to be promoted. For the Technical Blue Belt you need to master 36 techniques. If you do the research you will see its actually a very good curriculum. You're trying to criticize it but you know nothing about it. I'd recommend it to anyone looking to begin BJJ, very informative.
 
You need to watch the videos to see what's required to be promoted. For the Technical Blue Belt you need to master 36 techniques. If you do the research you will see its actually a very good curriculum. You're trying to criticize it but you know nothing about it. I'd recommend it to anyone looking to begin BJJ, very informative.

Well done.

You put that slideyfoot back to his place.

What an ignorant person! Criticising something he has no knowledge of.


Lmfao!

Is it troll season already?
 
I have read the comment "I'm a paying customer" on several different threads concerning loyalty and what not. As a small academy owner who works a full time job to support my family that bothers me. In our case tuition goes to keeping the doors open. Besides the money our students give so much to each other and new students it's unbelievable. It's more than a team it's like a family so yeah loyalty matters.

Sorry for the vent and going off topic.
 
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You need to watch the videos to see what's required to be promoted. For the Technical Blue Belt you need to master 36 techniques. If you do the research you will see its actually a very good curriculum. You're trying to criticize it but you know nothing about it. I'd recommend it to anyone looking to begin BJJ, very informative.

36 techniques that can be done to perfection in 22 lessons? i.e. used on a resistant sparring partner the same size or bigger than you?

I don't care how good the instruction is because that's technically impossible. Even people like BJ Penn who was known to be notoriously good at BJJ took longer than that to get their blue.

I mean, fuck, if 22 lessons gets me a new belt then I would have a black belt by now.
 
F12 has a serious necromancer infestation...
 
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I have read the comment "I'm a paying customer" on several different threads concerning loyalty and what not. As a small academy owner who works a full time job to support my family that bothers me. In our case tuition goes to keeping the doors open. Besides the money our students give so much to each other and new students it's unbelievable. It's more than a team it's like a family so yeah loyalty matters.

Sorry for the vent and going off topic.

How does any of this change the fact that students are paying customers, and can pick and choose where they train pf their own volition?
 
There are 36 techniques to master for the Combatives blue belt. Similarly, the Wu Tang has 36 chambers. Coincidence? I think not!
 
I have read the comment "I'm a paying customer" on several different threads concerning loyalty and what not. As a small academy owner who works a full time job to support my family that bothers me. In our case tuition goes to keeping the doors open. Besides the money our students give so much to each other and new students it's unbelievable. It's more than a team it's like a family so yeah loyalty matters.

Sorry for the vent and going off topic.

I think you need to look again at the situation. Otherwise you gonna end up very bitter about the outcome.

To start with, I do not think you own an academy.

For me, an academy is a business run by a bb that makes a living of teaching.

In your case, I think you are running an amateur club. You have a full time job and do it for the passion.
 
I think you need to look again at the situation. Otherwise you gonna end up very bitter about the outcome.

To start with, I do not think you own an academy.

For me, an academy is a business run by a bb that makes a living of teaching.

In your case, I think you are running an amateur club. You have a full time job and do it for the passion.

There is truth in this statement but don't get me wrong I have nothing to be bitter about. It's just unbelievable the "loyalty" or maybe I should say how close the people within our club have become. I should clarify not everyone is tight with the group there are a couple of folks who kinda keep a distance and that's cool to. My whole thing had nothing to do with someone leaving or any drama stuff. I brought it up because of the "I'm a paying customer" mentality I see in some post. Maybe I am naive but to me it is more than just selling widgets or in this case belts. I have become close with these people.
 
For your sake, just do not become that old broken record that call anyone a creonte as soonest they stop paying you for jj.
Just do what you do because you are passionate about teaching.
Do not get emotionally attached.
Like you said, you have a normal job, take time away from your family to teach. That is great.
I am in a similar situation and I just do not get emotionally attached.
Or expect some kind of loyalty because I like to be an amateur BJJ instructor that undercut the full time instructors and do not even have congrats.
In fact I am the only bb in my town that teach at amateur level.
 
There is truth in this statement but don't get me wrong I have nothing to be bitter about. It's just unbelievable the "loyalty" or maybe I should say how close the people within our club have become. I should clarify not everyone is tight with the group there are a couple of folks who kinda keep a distance and that's cool to. My whole thing had nothing to do with someone leaving or any drama stuff. I brought it up because of the "I'm a paying customer" mentality I see in some post. Maybe I am naive but to me it is more than just selling widgets or in this case belts. I have become close with these people.

I think there is blind loyalty and earned loyalty. The best schools do offer students something much more than a widget. I certainly do feel as sense of loyalty to many of my rolling partners and to many of my instructors. But, what that loyalty means to me is that I am respectful to my partners while on the mats, am respectful to the rules of the school and am respectful, but honest, when talking about the school to others. That is it. If the school suddenly could no longer meet my needs, then I would need to leave and find a place that was better suited. And, I know very well that if I could no longer pay the tuition, then I could no longer attend. So, yes, I think a good BJJ school does garner a type of loyalty a widget supplier doesn't but on the other hand a BJJ school still is indeed something that the customer pays to attend.
 
It's just unbelievable the "loyalty" or maybe I should say how close the people within our club have become. I should clarify not everyone is tight with the group there are a couple of folks who kinda keep a distance and that's cool to. My whole thing had nothing to do with someone leaving or any drama stuff. I brought it up because of the "I'm a paying customer" mentality I see in some post. Maybe I am naive but to me it is more than just selling widgets or in this case belts. I have become close with these people.

You got close with people that you meet on a daily basis and practice things together that you all enjoy?

You find that unbelievable?

O_O

See. You're not actually talking about "loyalty" here. At least, not loyalty in the sense that it is commonly disdained by people in this forum. Rather, you're talking about basic human friendship and common goodness.

The "loyalty" that people disdain is the "loyalty" that certain instructors demand from students. That the student cannot train elsewhere, must do certain things for the school that they train at, etc.
 
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