Gracie Combatives Review: Conclusion, Bad For The Sport

[KGB313]

The Gracie University system is as valid a means of learning jiu-jitsu as any other instructional video or book. In fact, based on what I've seen & heard, they're among some of the best instructionals out there. The combatives themselves are actually pretty good stuff. People have really lost sight of that.

The GU controversy always comes in for two reasons: the ability to be promoted without attending a brick & mortar location, and the criteria for a blue belt.

 

[jgn2112]

How does the GC criteria for blue belt differ from other schools that are considered more legit?
As I've said, my schedule is such that I simply cannot attend a dojo right now as their beginner schedules are all incompatible with mine...it seems that the schedules for all dojos around my area open up when you're at least a blue belt. There are more time slots available. So my goal is to get blue belt from GC and at that point, whichever dojo I enroll at, they'll likely want me to test under their current instruction. I'll be curious to see how much I am lacking. If I find that I'm lacking per their criteria, then at least I'd like to think I'm far enough along that I wouldn't be doing white belt instruction for long.
Don't know. I have a Royce Gracie dojo and Pedro Sauer's HQ relatively close to me, so I'm curious how the GC criteria for blue belt differs from theirs and what I'd have to do (if anything) to legitimize my blue belt with their programs.

 

[Fargone11]

Interesting read. Ironically, the people who should read reviews like these, never do.



I can see where you're coming from, but I would put up different criteria. For example, the classic staple of a McDojo is that belts are handed out to anyone with a minimum of experience and a large wallet.

- If your BJJ instructor never participates in tournaments, you might be in a McDojo.
- If you BJJ instructor has never won any regional / state tournaments above white belt level, you might be in a McDojo.
- If coloured belts are promoting other coloured belts, you might be in a McDojo.
- If your BJJ instructor wears a black belt from karate, japanese ju jitsu or judo, you've just bought a happy meal your local McDojo.

I don't know how much I agree with some of these. Not all 40 year old and above instructors are looking to compete! They put in a solid 10 years already to earn their black belt, I think they deserve it.

Not everyone who has a black belt had competition aspirations their entire career. Being a great competitor doesn't make you a great coach and being a great coach doesn't mean you were the best competitor.

I do believe instruction should come from a brown belt or above. So you won't catch an argument from me here.

 

[KGB313]

How does the GC criteria for blue belt differ from other schools that are considered more legit?
As I've said, my schedule is such that I simply cannot attend a dojo right now as their beginner schedules are all incompatible with mine...it seems that the schedules for all dojos around my area open up when you're at least a blue belt. There are more time slots available. So my goal is to get blue belt from GC and at that point, whichever dojo I enroll at, they'll likely want me to test under their current instruction. I'll be curious to see how much I am lacking. If I find that I'm lacking per their criteria, then at least I'd like to think I'm far enough along that I wouldn't be doing white belt instruction for long.
Don't know. I have a Royce Gracie dojo and Pedro Sauer's HQ relatively close to me, so I'm curious how the GC criteria for blue belt differs from theirs and what I'd have to do (if anything) to legitimize my blue belt with their programs.

The typical BJJ gym places a very strong emphasis on situational/positional drills and open sparring. The blue belt criteria still varies widely between schools, but they are largely based on technical proficiency during a live roll. The grappling you'll find in most schools is more oriented to sport BJJ than the self-defense oriented combatives that you're doing.

You'd definitely have a head start over someone with no experience, but I would not assume that a GC blue belt would entitle you to test at any school other than a Gracie Academy CTC.

 

[slideyfoot]

How does the GC criteria for blue belt differ from other schools that are considered more legit?.

Most (unfortunately not all, as formal belt tests are becoming more common) schools promote based on the instructor observing how a student perfoms in sparring against a range of fully resisting opponents. It's the resistance which is key, as that is what's lacking in the GC criteria. Applying a technique against a compliant or semi compliant opponent is very different than applying it against somebody fully resisting.

As has been mentioned, this topic has been hotly debated for the last three years (I wrote a huge review myself back in 2009). SSRambo already summarised the consensus: great teaching, very dubious promotion practices.

I'm more interested in seeing what happens once the Master Cycle starts producing purple and brown belts. Rener has claimed it evens out at that point, so we'll see if that turns out to be true.

 

[JerkWeed]

Fast forward to now....im a police officer back in VA who works an extremely erratic and ever changing schedule

Please tell us more about your erotic schedule. Oh wait, erratic schedule. nvrmd.

 

[jgn2112]

Applying a technique against a compliant or semi compliant opponent is very different than applying it against somebody fully resisting.

This is my takeaway from it too, in a nutshell. Great instruction, but you're testing with someone who is largely compliant as opposed to someone fully resistant.
I know the explanation for this from Rener/Ryron would be that, at this stage, it's more important to have flawless technique, and that a resisting opponent is more likely to encourage poor muscle memory...that the resisting opponents come into play when you reach blue belt. I do feel that is a solid argument. But I also feel that if a blue belt (by their definition) is meant to prepare you for a true streetfight against a larger, stronger opponent who has no knowledge of JJ, then the test should be administered against a fully resisting opponent.

 

[a dead stick]

If you are doing the gracie combatives program with an intent to join a real school at some later point, you are better off not bothering with their belt test at all.

No matter how far you get in Gracie Combatives, when you walk into a real school you will be a no-stripe white belt to them. You will likely get promoted more quickly depending on how much you actually get from the program, but for most instructors, the blue belt requires developing a level of comfort on the ground, and in ground fighting situation that goes beyond a set of techniques.

There are principals of movement and developmental aspects which are required and are not so obvious as being asked "can you perform such and such a technique", and BJJ in general is not broken down that way as a set of moves from belt to belt like other martial arts styles are.

 

[jgn2112]

If you are doing the gracie combatives program with an intent to join a real school at some later point, you are better off not bothering with their belt test at all.

No matter how far you get in Gracie Combatives, when you walk into a real school you will be a no-stripe white belt to them. You will likely get promoted more quickly depending on how much you actually get from the program, but for most instructors, the blue belt requires developing a level of comfort on the ground, and in ground fighting situation that goes beyond a set of techniques.

You're on to something there...but I think after about a year of practicing, I'll pay the fee and take the test. There is a Royce Gracie school about 20 minutes from my house and they already said they'd honor the belt. But I fully realise that I likely won't be on par with other blue belts that earned it by receiving in-class instruction. Because most schools' schedules around here are much more flexible when you're blue belt and higher I'll be able to actually go to a school...all the beginners/white belt classes at the schools here are offered at times I cannot attend.
One other school, a Leo Dalla school, is also about 20 min away from my house. If he honors the belt, then it's just a matter of which of those two schools fits my schedule more and the price. If not, I may have to suffer through beginners classes for awhile and hopefully advance quickly based on what I learned through GC.

 

[MaileJiuJitsu]

If he honors the belt, then it's just a matter of which of those two schools fits my schedule more and the price.

No offense but, do you want a blue belt or quality training?

If you have the ability to go to a regular BJJ academy now, do it. Don't waste your time on that online garbage. If you can't go to a regular academy, then there is plenty of free information on youtube that you and your buddies can try on each other until you can go to an actual academy.

And I'll save you some time and stress, I'm pretty sure 90% of the BJJ academies out there won't recognize a GU online blue belt. Also, lets say a legit academy DOES recognize it and word gets around in the academy that you got your blue belt from GU online, then I'd be a bit cautious because the majority of white belts in that academy will try to rip your freaking head off once they've heard the news.

 

[Estebanantonio]

Ok, I guess I will way in. The Gracie Combatives is a good basic program I have completed it and tested with Ryron Gracie on the program. With that being said don't expect if your only experience with jiu-jitsu is the Gracie Combatives to be competative with a "sportive" blue belt in roll'n/competition. The Gracie Combatives doesn't teach basic jiu-jitsu counters or how to deal with the kind of behaviors you could expect to encounter roll'n or fighting a skilled oponent. It teaches a person what to expect and how to use basic jiu-jitsu against an unskilled oponent. The program is great however it's not the answer if you want to win in competition.

If you do master the Gracie Combatives and then the first stripe material in the master cycle you would be more on par, provided you have enough good training partners to train/roll with. Establishing a solid group of training partners is the tough part for people.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

A blue belt gracie combatives stopped by our gym a few months ago. I made it a point to watch him when I could (Was busy doing other stuff at gym and he was in fundamentals). He was an athletic kid and I was curious if he would show any technique or try to muscle through stuff, if he was going to be a spazz etc.

They guy lost regularly to 3-4 stripe white belts and up that I saw but I will say he was really calm and tried to use only technique, which impressed me. He made a comment how much better everyone here was compared to the garage he trained in or where ever it was he did the combatives or university thing.

Just my 2 cents

 

[KGB313]

Don't waste your time on that online garbage. If you can't go to a regular academy, then there is plenty of free information on youtube that you and your buddies can try on each other until you can go to an actual academy.

This is terrible advice. The videos on Gracie University are quality instructional videos, regardless of your opinion on the program as a whole. Why would you encourage someone to train using YouTube materials that are worse than what he's already using?

And I'll save you some time and stress, I'm pretty sure 90% of the BJJ academies out there won't recognize a GU online blue belt. Also, lets say a legit academy DOES recognize it and word gets around in the academy that you got your blue belt from GU online, then I'd be a bit cautious because the majority of white belts in that academy will try to rip your freaking head off once they've heard the news.

Dude, why are you trying to scare this guy? Some academies will honor a rank, some won't. Some might ask you to roll with an instructor to determine if your rank is legit. Be prepared to educate your instructor about the GU program, because with no experience in sparring, you will roll like a white belt and your instructor will notice.

Nobody cares about GU. Anyone walks in with a rank, people are going to try to establish superiority out of gym pride...regardless of where you got your belt from. There will be some white belts that tap you out and do the 'OMG I TAPPED A BLUE BELT' routine, but they'll get over it pretty quickly.

You can save yourself a big headache by simply not wearing the blue belt into the new gym. Let the instructors know you have experience with Gracie Combatives, but don't insist on wearing the rank. Be satisfied if they allow you to attend the intermediate/advanced class that better fits your schedule.

Just understand that a lot of the stuff in the master cycle program that GU blues are doing is the same stuff that white belts are doing at other BJJ schools. You're learning something that non-GC students don't get, but in many ways you will be behind the senior white belts at another academy in terms of overall ability and understanding of BJJ.

 

[M3DI3VAL**]

^ no school is gonna honor that bullshit belt. maybe GU but that is about it. they won't gun for the guy unless he wears that fake bluebelt

 

[Calibur]

Just understand that a lot of the stuff in the master cycle program that GU blues are doing is the same stuff that white belts are doing at other BJJ schools. You're learning something that non-GC students don't get, but in many ways you will be behind the senior white belts at another academy in terms of overall ability and understanding of BJJ.

Than what is the point of being awarded the blue belt?

 

[ATL]

Than what is the point of being awarded the blue belt?

Im sorry I will earn my belts the traditional way and succumb to any online courses/lassiter bjj tools. Im not knocking you but id be embarassed to rep that. Kinda like bootleg clothes its suppose to be dolce and gabanna not dolce and cabanna lol

 

[SBJ]

A blue belt gracie combatives stopped by our gym a few months ago. I made it a point to watch him..

..The guy lost regularly to 3-4 stripe white belts and up..

What were you expecting? Is it really that fair to judge someone on how well they spar, when you know sparring is not part of their GC training.

A more fair evaluation of a GC blue belt would be for you to ask him to demonstrate all of his basic techniques that he became proficient enough at to earn their GC blue belt.

Please remember, GC is designed to provide, in the shortest amount of time, the most average student with the most basic self-defense Gracie Jiu-Jitsu techniques they will most likely need to survive and neutralize the most common aggression by a wild untrained "bad guy".

GC is not designed to address move-counter-move chess battles that happen on the mat against other skilled jiu-jitsu players.

 

[AzRich75]

As with any correspondence/internet/self-paced program, personal commitment and discipline are what determines how successful you will absorb the knowledge. GU and GC are no different.

My very first impression of this program was like most, skeptical until just a few months ago when I had the opportunity to visit Salas Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in Hermosillo, MX.

The students and instructor (blue belt by the way) are dedicated to GC and GU. The Salas (all black belts) visit the Hermosillo academy once or twice a week from their other locations in Mexico, but otherwise all instruction is taught by a blue belt.

The instruction and skills of this Gracie Academy, the instructor, and the students is legit. Benjamin Tapia, one of the academy's blue belts recently took gold at the Mexican BJJ Nationals. Feel free to Google, "Benjamin Tapia Nacional 2011" to see what can be produced at a Gracie Academy with the right dedication and discipline.

Rolling at this school, with these type of people completely changed my opinion of what the Gracies are trying to do with GU and GC. I will take any and every chance when visiting my family in Hermosillo to visit this school and get time on the mats.

 

[slideyfoot]

GC is not designed to address move-counter-move chess battles that happen on the mat against other skilled jiu-jitsu players.

This is an argument I hear a lot, and it's a common TMA argument too. The problem is, while those attackers on the street may or may not be skilled, they will be resisting.

Like I said before, resistance is key. I don't think the method GU have come up with to simulate an untrained attacker is sufficient, because it is too compliant.

Not to mention that it makes little sense to only prepare for the best case scenario (drunk, out of shape and untrained) rather than the worst (super fit, strong wrestler etc).

 

[Supereem]

This is an argument I hear a lot, and it's a common TMA argument too. The problem is, while those attackers on the street may or may not be skilled, they will be resisting.

Like I said before, resistance is key. I don't think the method GU have come up with to simulate an untrained attacker is sufficient, because it is too compliant.

Not to mention that it makes little sense to only prepare for the best case scenario (drunk, out of shape and untrained) rather than the worst (super fit, strong wrestler etc).

And you are shit out of luck if they are trained in BJJ at a real school as well.