Governor Cuomo issuing pardons to all parolees to restore voting rights

[Kframe]

I love it. This is a skillful use of the pardon. He sees his people disenfranchised, and acts within his power to correct it. The legislature made their own bed here when they deprived people of their rights for no good reason. Fix the law now, and restore the rights that never should have been taken in the first place.

Next up, inmates.

I have to ask why are felons rights still stripped from them after they server their time? Personally I am ok with it, as I think that when you do you time and do it in good faith, that you should get your rights back.

Despite that I am a right winger, I kind of think this was a brilliant stroke on his part. Their are times I wish I was a leftwinger, our politicians just seem retarded.

 

[Kframe]

Why should people who commit felonies have any say in our process? Do you really want that?

If you serve your time with good behavior then you should have your rights restored. I thought double jeopardy was against the American way of thinking.

 

[Kframe]

Still better than outwardly courting the pedophile vote like the GOP does.

Please explain? I don't remember any adds aimed at pedos.

 

[Kframe]

How come when they vote, it's just "checking a box" and when you vote, you're exercising your constitutional right?

Care to explain that, or should I file it under "shit you wish you hadn't typed, on second thought."

How about you lose your rights and then tell me all about the fish-fry.

While you have a point about his words, he does have a point you ignored. Felons on parole have far bigger issues then voting to deal with. Life sucks for them on the outside. Most can not get jobs because no one wants to hire them. No one trusts them or really wants them around. They go in poor and come out even poorer. They cant get work, cant afford college and cant get ahead really. That is why recidivism is so high among them. Lots more money should be spent by our government getting them skilled and in college, and getting them good paying jobs. It's pointless and a huge money waste to let them out and have them get thrown into the shark tank with no help and then reoffend repeatedly. Such a waste of money constantly having to rehouse them in prison.

 

[Kframe]

So take less and less of the ramifications of being a felon away. There needs to be punishments in place to lessen the chance of people committing crimes. Wait till they push for full right restorations for pedophiles.

Oh look it's the slippery slope argument. A poor debate tactic that serves no purpose and is ultimately useless only proving your arguments weakness.

 

[Kframe]

Seeing as your so big on giving felon's their constitutional rights back should convicted felons also be allowed to bear arms? After all it is an American right. If some wack job conservative did this you would be losing your shit.

Yes. If they have completed their sentence then they need their full rights restored.

 

[Kframe]

I wouldn't support giving the right to vote back to a person convicted of voter fraud, for instance. At least not before a significant amount of time had passed without more unlawful behavior. That's justified very directly. Similarly, felons with convictions like assault with a weapon, or illegal gun possession should also lose that right for a long time. Or in the case of domestic violence, if it can be shown that certain behavior correlates too strongly with spousal murder or other violent misbehavior, then maybe people should lose guns for that, for a time.

I think my positions on this stuff are all pretty much common sense and we should look more to evidence rather than emotions when we take away rights. But the reasons for stripping felons of voting rights are basically "we don't like you."

I fully agree with everything here.(HOLY SHIT!) You articulated my feelings on this issue far better then I did.

 

[Kframe]

Yes. Otherwise it invalidates the point of imprisonment. Personally, very critical of any type of punishments or restrictions that extend past the time that an individual has served his court appointed sentence. Permanent punishment sits poorly with me.

Agreed. Punishments should have a start and an ending. Perpetual punishment is like the horseshit pulled in bible days of punishing whole families out to 3 generations..

 

[Kframe]

It's only felons (and you have to work to pick up a felony count that sticks as a felony) and they lose their right to vote or own firearms. I guess I'm old-school, but it makes perfect sense to me. They still pardoned some and restored rights in unusual circumstances where someone went on to be a pillar of society, but those are few and far between like unicorns or chicken teeth and the system seemed fine "as is" to me.

Felony charges are usually knocked down to misdemeanors in a plea agreement at least a couple times or so, unless it's pretty serious. You have to be pretty hard-core to amass a felony rap sheet. In my experience and from what I've seen. And I've experienced and seen some things. lol

And again, doesn't a pardon completely wash away the crime? That's outrageous in this blanket move. Outrageous. That would have to be case-by-case and with great scrutiny to be legit.

Read OP. This EA did not expunge their crimes.

 

[Fawlty]

While you have a point about his words, he does have a point you ignored. Felons on parole have far bigger issues then voting to deal with. Life sucks for them on the outside. Most can not get jobs because no one wants to hire them. No one trusts them or really wants them around. They go in poor and come out even poorer. They cant get work, cant afford college and cant get ahead really. That is why recidivism is so high among them. Lots more money should be spent by our government getting them skilled and in college, and getting them good paying jobs. It's pointless and a huge money waste to let them out and have them get thrown into the shark tank with no help and then reoffend repeatedly. Such a waste of money constantly having to rehouse them in prison.

I didn't think he was making that point about being sympathetic to the problems felons have to deal with, but instead minimizing how important the right to vote is to felons, which isn't really true. He even said some people would feel insulted by getting their voting rights restored, which is just silly. Let me put it this way- if we agree as a society to restore voting rights, removing that discretion from the states as we should, then we'll be much more likely to help them in other ways, with those bigger problems.

I agree with everything you said about investing in their education/skills, and the effects of the "felon" stigma.

 

[Kframe]

I continue to disagree because I don't see how we can say "These Constitutional rights can be permanently taken away but these Constitutional rights cannot."

Either Constitutional rights are for everyone or they aren't if they are not, then we need a new Bill of rights vote to add or subtract new amendments as needed.

 

[Kframe]

I didn't think he was making that point about being sympathetic to the problems felons have to deal with, but instead minimizing how important the right to vote is to felons, which isn't really true. He even said some people would feel insulted by getting their voting rights restored, which is just silly. Let me put it this way- if we agree as a society to restore voting rights, removing that discretion from the states as we should, then we'll be much more likely to help them in other ways, with those bigger problems.

I agree with everything you said about investing in their education/skills, and the effects of the "felon" stigma.

Yea I see your point about the felons feeling insulted bit he was on about. I was just focusing on what I thought was the point when he said "bigger fish to fry". Votes are fundamental. Absolutely. However, what is more important in the right here and right now? That is meeting their immediate basic needs. What use is the right to vote, in the felons mind, if they can not eat? Or are sleeping in a ditch or under a damn bridge?

I understand your point. Voting rights, and other constitutional rights are just as important. But I guess my mind is focused on the more immediate needs. With out those being met, I doubt many will be able to vote.

 

[Kframe]

I don't need to.

Its part of the punishment for being a felon. Plain and simple.

I thought perpetual punishment ended with the Old Testament?

 

[Teppodama]

While you have a point about his words, he does have a point you ignored. Felons on parole have far bigger issues then voting to deal with. Life sucks for them on the outside. Most can not get jobs because no one wants to hire them. No one trusts them or really wants them around. They go in poor and come out even poorer. They cant get work, cant afford college and cant get ahead really. That is why recidivism is so high among them. Lots more money should be spent by our government getting them skilled and in college, and getting them good paying jobs. It's pointless and a huge money waste to let them out and have them get thrown into the shark tank with no help and then reoffend repeatedly. Such a waste of money constantly having to rehouse them in prison.

They'll deal with that by eventually adding them to protected classes making it illegal to discriminate against them for a prior criminal record if they've served their term or paroled.

 

[Seano]

I thought perpetual punishment ended with the Old Testament?

Whatever.
voting restriction ends when you're punishment is completed. So this is clearly unnecessary pandering to help fill the ballot box.

 

[PHATV]

Read OP. This EA did not expunge their crimes.

Gotcha. I was misled by the thread title to think it was via pardons. Either way, it's outrageous. To consider on a case-by-case basis is fine, but this is garbage juice.

 

[splendica]

Need to refill that swamp.

 

[splendica]

“Bend the arc towards justice”



That’s actually the opposite of justice...



Let me clarify that for those who don’t speak NY politician,


“I’m running for President so I’m pandering to everyone”

Bingo.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

I'm not a dumb ass kid, I don't get "triggered"

 

[Madmick]

Why in the fuck are we showing these criminals amnesty?

Rhetorical question. Partisan bullshit. Felons shouldn't be allowed to vote. Love that law.