Gordon Ryan Seminar Review (or, How You Attack the Back is Probably Wrong)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Uchi Mata, May 15, 2017.

  1. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,945
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    On the heels of his match against Eliot Kelly at F2W Pro in Denver over the past weekend, I had the chance to attend a seminar with Gordon Ryan, who if you're not familiar with him is one of the leading submission grapplers in the world at the moment. The seminar was about 2 hours of technique, 30 minutes of Q&A, and 30 minutes of rolling.

    We spend the bulk of the seminar covering how to attack once you have the back, and I can tell you that it was pretty mind blowing. The DDS mantra seems to be reducing relatively complex sequences to the smallest number of important cues possible, and that held true for their back attacking system as well. The manner in which they set up arm trapping and deal with common defenses has clearly been deeply researched and tested at the highest levels, and you can feel as you move through the technique that this is stuff that will work against anyone. One thing Eddie Cummings and Gordon emphasized was the need to create dilemmas for your opponent, which they're using in the philosophical sense to mean situations where all your choices are bad. All BJJ relies to a certain extent upon having reactions ready to predictable counters from your opponents, but I don't think I've ever seen a school that places as much emphasis on trying to specifically create situations in which your opponent is almost forced into going into a worse position (as opposed to being allowed to statically defend, say) as Danaher's. In addition to the back attacks we covered some heel hook finishing mechanics which were very similar to what Eddie had showed but with a few adjustments that were helpful for me as I'm built more like Gordon than Eddie and that makes a difference in how you apply leverage. There was the familiar emphasis on breaking things as opposed to just making ligaments pop, but it's hard to argue with that way of thinking when you consider the sorts of locks that these guys' opponents will just gut out.

    The Q&A was relatively short and to the point, I didn't get the feeling anything was held back though Gordon had less of a tendency to expound on answers than Eddie.

    Rolling was a lot of fun. Gordon rolled with whoever wanted to until submission, and I'd say he was going about 60% with me and the other higher belts (I was going about 80%, wanted to be competitive but also able to pay attention to what was happening). Most of us got about 3-4 minutes in before he'd start really going for the finish. Predictably, I got heel hooked after trying for a leg lock of my own (probably not the best idea, but the position required it. C'est la vie). His control on the heel hook was very impressive, I started to defend and he just totally shut down my defense and took the lock very slowly for which I was thankful.

    Having heard some somewhat negative reviews of Gordon's attitude as a presenter in the past, I feel like I should comment on that as well. He did not come across as warm or genial in the way someone like Braulio does, but he wasn't dismissive of any questions and he took the time to give thorough answers when asked for elaboration on moves. Honestly, he struck me as a very young guy with a (largely justified) very high opinion of himself and not a lot of time for BS who was learning to temper his attitude and self presentation as a natural part of the maturation process. When he was wrapping up the seminar his comments about wanting to make sure everyone got what they were looking for having taken the time and paid the money to come out seemed very genuine; I think he did care about doing a good job. I would definitely do another seminar with him, those guys are on the leading edge of the refinement of submission oriented BJJ and I don't think you could find a more well codified system than what Danaher has bequeathed to his leading students. Well worth the time and money.
     
    #1
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  2. Rico Franklin

    Rico
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,709
    Likes Received:
    2,565
    Location:
    dahntahn n at
    So I've actually been studying their "straight jacket" rnc setup with the cross arm grip then trapping the arm with the leg and it's worked pretty well for me. I'd love to have been there, though, as I'm sure I'm missing a few details.
     
    #2
    Orion likes this.
  3. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,945
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    It's all in the details. I've been working on it a lot since Eddie gave me a few crumbs to go on in the Q&A during a seminar in March, but I was definitely missing some key elements that make it work against good guys. I can't wait to start testing it in sparring.
     
    #3
  4. BwamSolid Yellow Belt

    BwamSolid
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    72
    Thanks for the write up. Was at a grappling industries in Montreal about 2 years ago competing. I walk in the locker and I notice a guys sizing me up very quickly. Looking at his attire I could tell this guy was a serious grappler. Actually, let me take that back because there were plenty competitors with fancy rashguards that were shit but there was a certain aura about him I could tell he was not there to play. Come to find out it was Gordon Ryan, he ran threw the absolute division collecting ankles.
     
    #4
  5. kenetics Black Belt

    kenetics
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    5,468
    Likes Received:
    2,195

    No one asked on how he got so muscular the past couple months?
     
    #5
    HunterAcosta likes this.
  6. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,945
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Nope. Though in person he didn't look as huge as he does on Instagram. Definitely put on some weight, but not as much as I was expecting.
     
    #6
    kenetics likes this.
  7. The Thrill Blue Belt

    The Thrill
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    stuck in a triangle
    dont be a :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
     
    #7
    bjjaz likes this.
  8. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,126
    Likes Received:
    466
    Steroids are allowed under all the rule sets Gordon competes in.
     
    #8
    mike sherry, bjjaz and kenetics like this.
  9. The Thrill Blue Belt

    The Thrill
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    stuck in a triangle
    ive been working on my back control a bit lately, how close is this guy to what theyre actually doing?


     
    #9
  10. kenetics Black Belt

    kenetics
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    5,468
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    You would put up a tenth planet video Lolz.
     
    #10
  11. The Thrill Blue Belt

    The Thrill
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    stuck in a triangle
    can you point me to anything ive ever said or shown that would lead you to believe im a 10th planet guy? im actually more of a judo guy, and barely train without a gi...im sure this is going to be hard for you, but can you figure out why i posted a video titled gordon ryan back control system in a gordon ryan back attack thread?
     
    #11
    Rolf3000, waiguoren and NinjaFitBJJ like this.
  12. kenetics Black Belt

    kenetics
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    5,468
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    Cool.
     
    #12
    bjjaz likes this.
  13. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,945
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Not very. Though I don't want to assume that what he showed us was the entirety of ways to go about it.
     
    #13
    Orion likes this.
  14. Dana_is_your_GOD Platinum Chram deal with it

    Dana_is_your_GOD
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Messages:
    8,567
    Likes Received:
    15,823
    Location:
    Sara's Room
    Time for a Felipe pena seminar!
     
    #14
  15. MotivatedPenn White Belt

    MotivatedPenn
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    53
    You mind sharing some tips?
     
    #15
    JustTheTip and Orion like this.
  16. closequarters Green Belt

    closequarters
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    I hope Uchi shares details also but I don't blame him if he doesn't. Sharing details from a seminar is kind of frowned upon (unless permission is given). I've done seminars where the instructor said bring your cameras and notepads if you'd like and others say no cameras or note pads.

    I'm just guessing, because of how Gordon is running his grappling career, he wouldn't like his seminar details shared on forums.
     
    #16
  17. kjg1672 Purple Belt

    kjg1672
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,433
    Likes Received:
    105
    I was watching some videos of Marcelo's old matches and noticed he also liked to trap the arm on back takes. Specifically, Marcelo likes to kind of weave his leg around the arm and beneath his opponent's leg to help keep the arm trapped. Do you think this style of back-take is something Gordon brought back or is he taking it to another level?
     
    #17
  18. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,945
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    That's pretty much how I'm treating it. I don't want those guys to stop giving seminars, and the fastest way to do that is most likely to start describing everything they taught in detail on the internet.
     
    #18
  19. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,945
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    He was much less concerned with wrapping up the arm Marcelo style than just trapping it against his opponent's body and then crossing his own legs to hug and keep the arm trapped.
     
    #19
    kjg1672 likes this.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"