Gordon "my parents pay for everything so I can train full time" Ryan

NateTx4112 said:
I understand the contracts but it goes against what I hated most at my last school which was the high pressure to do a long term contract. I signed up and contract ran out then every 12 months it was this awkward business dealing with the owner and his father. They are socially awkward people and 2 years in he jumped 100% no board the Lloyd Irvin train and it became more about the money than anything. His long term retention rate is SHIT but his marketing and white/blue belt rate is awesome. But open for 9 years and most higher ranks have left .... something is wrong.

So my entire anti contract stance is based on that. If I had a contract with students (I started out with them) and they said they wanted to leave because "i want to train elsewhere" or "bjj is not for me" then I would let them out. Don't want to charge an ETF for someone who doesn't want to train. Flat out I can do this BECAUSE it's my side gig though, I get it. I'm a terrible businessman in that sense and I won't let people even sign up their first 3 classes. I tell them come back for your second week before I will take a payment. Some say get someone to sign up right away/first night but I don't and I've got a very high retention rate/close rate. If they come in the door I've closed 90% of people.

I know I'm going against the grain with my philosophy but it's built a terrific culture so far and my students love it/appreciate the way I run things because they never felt pressure and how laid back I am with it. I want people to be there and my referral rate is very high because of it in a very saturated market like DFW.

Ultimately it comes down to my 2 main rules

1) Don't be an asshole
2) Over deliver on your product

That's done well but I'm still new to the game, but growing at decent rate and running out of room already. I understand what the top guys do, I know Lloyd Marketing, I know the Paul Halme/Alan Belcher models and I get it. But What I want to do personally is different and I truly believe in my vision and the way I'm doing it. I might pass up some dollars short term, but I'm focusing 100% on the long game and having people who want to be there because they love my product me/not because of some contract or sales strategy. Just my side of the coin.
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I hear ya and u gotta do what's best with your school and your personal philosophy . But u called it : your previous instructor was socially awkward. That was the problem . And if u do it right u ain't really SELLING anything . I never put pressure on prospective students to do a long term contract but if they ran the numbers , they would see month to month( we charged them more ) would not be economically beneficial in the long term for them. And you want somebody long term right ? You're not just looking for 6 month students , right ? You'd like to see them develop over the years I'm sure ...you sound like you have a lot of integrity and I respect hat ...
I don't see anything inherently wrong with contracts either . It protects both parties. Buy a car ? Contract ....House ? Contract . Are those inherently evil contracts ( they could be , but buyer has to know what they're signing ). It's all in how u present it and the product /service had to be good .
Sorry u had such a bad experience with your previous instructor and I understand the hate for the Lloyd Irvin style marketing /sales pitch . But there is a middle ground between " I only teach for the integrity of the PURE martial arts" l type instructor( which you appear to be ) and the sleazy Lloyd Irvin style type marketing . It's not an either / or proposition . Like I said , students at the school I was at had the freedom to do month to month but most wouid like the school and would do contracts cause they'd save buckets of money in long run . And I wasn't a hard seller with pressure and all that .And you are planning on these students. being with u a long time right ?
And there is something very adult about signing an agreement . It shows maturity. They can't just say " oh I don't like this anymore . " or " im having trouble paying for this ." It teaches people to be fiscally responsible . Or not. My instructor had a heart . He'd work with them if they had a difficult situation come up in their life or something and they couldn't pay . But it was the exception rather than the norm. . It wasn't black and white . You're spending your valuable time with theee people for s reason . It's just security for u and them .
But..the most important point of all this is and you said it...it's a SIDE gig . Yes you love it . Yes you care . But it's not your primary source to eat. You may feel differently if it was. Or not . Look I can't change your mind . U obviously know a lot about the industry and the types of sleazy people that can be in it ( that's any industry really ). U sound like s good , capable , moral instructor and I wish u well , but we agree to disagree . But I really wish the best for u .,
 
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I understand appreciate the mature discussion and counter points. Rare to see online.

Have a good one bud.
 
We all need to prepare for the post work econonmy. What would you do if you didn't have to do anything?
Eventually, robots, ai, and other technologies will make "working for a living" obsolete. We'll still be working. Hopefully doing things we really care about.
Universal basic income makes more and more sense every day.
 
Cash Bill 52 said:
We all need to prepare for the post work econonmy. What would you do if you didn't have to do anything?
Eventually, robots, ai, and other technologies will make "working for a living" obsolete. We'll still be working. Hopefully doing things we really care about.
Universal basic income makes more and more sense every day.
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I agree completely that AI is the future and that most jobs will eventually be replaced. Labor jobs for sure. However, depending on the the government for my income is my worst nightmare...
 
NateTx4112 said:
I dont do contracts, 100% month to month and am making decent profit teaching and running a school for only being open 5 months.

Billing companies aren't that expensive either. Marketing I do myself, no flyers etc. Mainly word of mouth and some fb/Google ad words. Takes about 3 months for Google Seo to work but have that funnel rolling in.

Insurance shit is easy and cheap. Taxes are not hard you just get a tax guy and keep records in excel.

I think you over complicate some of this shit. It's not hard as long as you aren't a lazy Fuck or an idiot.
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I don't do contract as well but it is not my main source of income.

I have a maximum number of students based in size of the mats, ratio students and instructor s.

I have a waiting list for the past one year.

If someone needs to stop paying and leave, I already got 5 people in the waiting list.

People told me to put my price up to maximise profit and because I have limited space but I prefer following my model instead.
 
The devil will be in the details for sure. Drivers and fast food workers will disappear pretty quickly it appears. Some jobs might replace them, but the expansion rate of technology will far outpace the capacity to create new jobs.
 
Sounds like OP had a giant glass of hater-ade and came on her to whine about it. Ryan isn't the only competitor to live like this. It isn't abnormal. Yes he's young and confident. But between this thread and the adcc thread I'm convinced op is just jealous
 
HunterAcosta said:
I was program manager at a martial arts school . I've been to business seminars with some of the top guys in the industry . They ALL have contracts . I'm glad you are doing " decent" . You may want to go Beyond decent someday . Or not . The way I was taught to sell was contracts first being offered to potential student ,( 3 year program ) , then 1 year then offer 6 months , then if they balk offer a 3 week trial course , then finally month to month , which was the most expensive for the student in the long run . 3 year and year contract saved student a lot of money . . My instructor had 300 students with a few people on payroll ( like me ).
The philosophy is you don't let them leave the school without getting something out of it . I didn't even pressure sell .it usually sold itself . 5 months ? I wouid expect you to do decent after 5 months . Let's talk in 5 years cause I'm telling you , if you want some security in the biz , everybody in the industry has them . Doesn't mean it's all they offer , but they def have them. My two cents . But what do I know ? Right ?
Wish you well and you are right , it's not rocket science , but as u expand and grow ( if you do ) you will find it will get more difficult to run. It's a good problem to have though , cause it means you're growing . Unless you're content on having a small student base of quality students ( some are ). But there's nothing wrong with making a really great living at something you love .
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There's more than one way to do things. Contracts is one of many. However, signing people up for a 3 year contracts is how Bally Total Fitness got sued, developed a poor reputation and ultimately folded. How did their expansion workout?

Your philosophy of not letting them leave the school unless you get something out of it is a terrible thing I would not repeat aloud. That philosophy should be to provide a top notch service which people would not want to leave.
 
PayPerView said:
There's more than one way to do things. Contracts is one of many. However, signing people up for a 3 year contracts is how Bally Total Fitness got sued, developed a poor reputation and ultimately folded. How did their expansion workout?

Your philosophy of not letting them leave the school unless you get something out of it is a terrible thing I would not repeat aloud. That philosophy should be to provide a top notch service which people would not want to leave.
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I find it really strange as well especially in Bjj due to the fact that everyone accepts the fact that it takes 10 years to black belt on average.

One customer can represent 10 years of fees easily.
 
My old school now does 2 and 3 year contracts now he started in the last 6 months after higher ranks started leaving.

3 year contracts are ridiculous. Hell I was married to a different woman 3 years ago lol. So much changes in 3 years.
 
3 year contracts for fitness services (MA schools generally fall under this) aren't even legal in many states.

Somehow schools in those states where contracts are limited to 1 year max still succeed though.
 
Three years looks legal in Texas. I believe three years is the maximum length that any state has.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/OC/htm/OC.702.htm

It varies from state to state. It's pretty complicated so you just have to look up your state. There's usually a bunch of stuff in there that you have to watch out for or else your contracts could be voided.

I could have sworn VA was limited to 12 months, but I looked it up again and found three years. So either they changed it or I was remembering wrong.

Here's PA saying that if you are an "exempt" club (i.e. you don't have a bond filed with the state), you are limited to 12 month contracts.

https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Registrations/Health_Club_Registration/

In NY, it says you can't charge more than $3600/year. That's $300/month so I wonder if anyone in Manhattan is charging close to that...

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/agreement-protect-health-club-members
 
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PayPerView said:
There's more than one way to do things. Contracts is one of many. However, signing people up for a 3 year contracts is how Bally Total Fitness got sued, developed a poor reputation and ultimately folded. How did their expansion workout?

Your philosophy of not letting them leave the school unless you get something out of it is a terrible thing I would not repeat aloud. That philosophy should be to provide a top notch service which people would not want to leave.
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I never said it's ONLY way( contracts ) . It's just ( even Nate admitted ) the most ( and imo best ) common way. Where did I ever say that the school I was at WASNT offering a top notch service that they wouldn't want to leave. People will walk out and leave and not sign up for all kinds of reasons . You just try and minimize it . And not wanting a prospective student to leave doesn't mean that you aren't providing a good service or being a greedy asshole .I'm an optimistic person and wanna believe if u are offering a lot they you are also giving a lot . I know that's not always case with school owners though or life in general .. And I'm giving Nate benefit of the doubt and assuming he has s top notch school . And it Doesn't mean that you literally DONT let them leave and be a hard selling asshole . It's just a mentality that comes with sales that's all . U can look at it at like it's s dirtbag or whatever and thats cool . I really don't give a fuck Just like u don't give a fuck bout my opinion. I guess if u ran s school and had dudes working for u selling memberships you'd be cool with them always not getting sale , cause you know , customer has prerogative and all . " " Joe you didn't get sale , what's up ?" " it's all good boss . They totally feel our cool vibe and may come back . Or not ." Easy to say when you're salary . But when your income is based on students signing up and paying your mortgage, and supporting s family ,you might feel differently .. Too many school owners do it for the love which is great but love Doesn't get pay your bills and brother , I'm sorry we live in a capitalistic society that's made of money . Is what it is ..But whatever. Still wish u well as fellow human in this world , brother .
 
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Imho contract termination should be without penalty. Its simply not worth the potential of bad PR/online rant he/she may go on. Besides if a person doesnt want to be in your gym its best flr your gym to gwt rid of that person ASAP
 
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Dana_is_your_GOD said:
What, based on this thread? How is this thread wrong?
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Your thread title is whack and instantly makes any discussion that goes on inside it dismissive.

It's needlessly petty, reeks of insecurity and I wish I didn't have to look at it.

Just my opinion tho.
 
He seems to be taking his parent's money pretty seriously. He won ADCC and he got super jacked. If I told my kid i'd support whatever they wanted to do and he said BJJ and became ADCC champ and was serious about his physical conditioning I would be quite pleased. He can always learn some intellectual trade later on if he wants to.

Ryo said:
I agree completely that AI is the future and that most jobs will eventually be replaced. Labor jobs for sure. However, depending on the the government for my income is my worst nightmare...
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I'm sure there's going to be an economy it's just the jobs will be different. A lot of it will probably be in entertaining each other and if you're in high demand you'll still get an income from that. A thousand years ago if you told some guy that there would be a lot less farmers he'd probably wonder what everyone would be doing.
 
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