Good guy with a gun (uniformed cop) at Parkland Highschool shooting didn't engage shooter...

[WorldofWarcraft]

 

[Fawlty]

There’s nothing to learn unfortunately, just one guy who could’ve and should’ve done something to save lives but didn’t.

This isn’t a SRO thing. All cops are trained on how to respond to an active school shooter and it’s not to do what he did. We all expect ourselves and our co-workers to do it and understand and are willing to accept the risks that come with it.

Anyone in this line of work who hasn’t already made that choice is in the wrong line of work. I’d expect another cop to go into my kids school and I’ll go into his.

If my kid went to this school and this guy didn’t go in he’d be retiring to avoid a historic ass beating when he came back to work.

Well it's impossible not to be sympathetic to that POV, and I really want to agree. I'm just not sure if it's a realistic enough expectation for us to come down so hard on people who falter here.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

he may not have literally sworn to go Rambo, but some form of 'protect and serve' is in there somewhere and who exactly was he protecting by standing there put like a can

if you engage and can't handle it, i mean at least you attempted. There are things called cover and concealment just FYI, nobody is saying he walks in hands up says a one liner and rips the guys throat out.....

he did jack and shit.

 

[Squarechoke]

I'll save the natural rights vs. legal rights debate for others. Suffice it to say, I think anyone of age and with a clean record should be able to make the decision for themselves.

There is no easy answer to safety. No one size fits all. But it bears repeating, in America nobody else is responsible for providing self-defense on our behalf. I think it's a sobering fact to keep in mind when telling people they should just rely on the professionals.

Cheers.

Well, you could change the laws on responsibilities for certain professions as easily as you could change any other law. I'm not suggesting anything about what should be done, I'm just pointing that out. All laws are subject to change (some harder to change than others of course) so you can pick and choose which state you want them to be in.

We're certainly in agreement that there are no easy answers to the the question that's complex even before you go into that the answer is different for each country's context.

 

[Prime Rib]

The only thing we can do to stop this is give guns, more guns.
If not they will take our guns.
Per the Tobacco lobby errrrrr I mean the NRA.

I haven't made that connection between the tobacco industry and the NRA yet. Eerily similar.

 

[BillytheFish]

The only reason you’d wait is for more officers to go in as a team. That’s it.

Cops have plenty of training and experience room clearing. We do it constantly on alarm calls going through homes and businesses. Active shooter tranining specifically is also more and more common.

It’s not an issue of training. The training is get to and engage the threat as soon as possible. That means bypassing victims on the ground including other officers. Stop the shooter is the #1 priority, no matter what training or experience or equipment you have or lack.

I've spent most of my career, many months of the year over 16 years practising it, sorry but don't agree with you here, obviously it is agency dependent also.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

I've spent most of my career, many months of the year over 16 years practising it, sorry but don't agree with you here, obviously it is agency dependent also.

Disagree with what?

 

[BillytheFish]

Disagree with what?

That it isn't an issue of training

 

[Thrawn33]

Disgraceful

You take a job like that you better be willing to lay down your life for those kids.

Mass shooters are like bullies, in that the second they are opposed with equal threat they back off or suicide...if not at least buy some kids time by making the shooter keep his head down and engage you.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Well, you could change the laws on responsibilities for certain professions as easily as you could change any other law. I'm not suggesting anything about what should be done, I'm just pointing that out. All laws are subject to change (some harder to change than others of course) so you can pick and choose which state you want them to be in.

We're certainly in agreement that there are no easy answers to the the question that's complex even before you go into that the answer is different for each country's context.

Yeah, we could. Personally I would support criminalizing a failure to put yourself in harm's way for another. We all want to get home to our families.

 

[GrandNewb]

Cops have absolutely zero legal obligation to do anything. The Supreme Court grants them immunity and discretion. Cops do not have to risk their lives to save others. Thus, they can sit back during riots and shoot outs and stroll in after everything has died down. Seen this repeated over and over in person. That's why there's so little trust of police in certain neighborhoods. They know cops won't come to help them when they call.

 

[MartinGibson86]

I think what we can take from this is that all guys names Scot(t) Peterson should be banned. They don’t seem to turn out right.

Good hot dogs though.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

Not sure it will go anywhere. I believe it's be ruled by the courts that police don't have to risk their lives as part of the job. Going in, suited up with SWAT, in formations with bigger guns is one thing. This guy had a service hand gun.

On its own. Yes. But this sheriff's dept made multiple errors. They suspended two others that had delt with Cruz on prior calls.
When you suspend 3 officers in all, the city will settle some type of lawsuit.

 

[HereticBD]

he may not have literally sworn to go Rambo, but some form of 'protect and serve' is in there somewhere and who exactly was he protecting by standing there put like a can

if you engage and can't handle it, i mean at least you attempted. There are things called cover and concealment just FYI, nobody is saying he walks in hands up says a one liner and rips the guys throat out.....

he did jack and shit.

Anyone can take an oath. You simply don't know how you will react in that kind of situation. It's a little harsh to judge his basic human instincts, unless you yourself have similar experience.

That goes for bad shoots too. You think you're a hero and have what it takes? Be my fuckin' guest, and go for it. You want unfeeling, no fear, comply or die, robot dudes as cops? Fine by me. Just don't complain when they shoot someone for scratching their ass when they were told to freeze, either.

 

[Prime Rib]

Kid should not have had access to the weapon.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Anyone can take an oath. You simply don't know how you will react in that kind of situation. It's a little harsh to judge his basic human instincts, unless you yourself have similar experience.

That goes for bad shoots too. You think you're a hero and have what it takes? Be my fuckin' guest, and go for it. You want unfeeling, no fear, comply or die, robot dudes as cops? Fine by me. Just don't complain when they shoot someone for scratching their ass when they were told to freeze, either.

i personally do have experience, and i have seen others freeze so i'm not hating on that

You have to actually be involved to freeze though, he didn't even get involved. THAT is the problem

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel on Thursday said he has suspended without pay the school resource officer who was at the Parkland school where 17 people were shot dead.

Israel said school resource officer Scot Peterson took a position outside of the school but "never went in" as the onslaught occurred, citing security footage.

"In the case of Scot Peterson, our school resource deputy, I want to clarify any rumors, conjecture or stories that may have been out there," Israel said.

Israel said Peterson was "absolutely on campus," adding that he was armed and in uniform during the shooting.​

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...r-Who-Was-at-Parkland-Shooting-474889753.html

"After seeing video and witness statements, and Peterson's own statement, I decided this morning ... to suspend Scot Peterson without pay pending an internal investigation," Israel said, adding Peterson chose to then resign and retire.

When asked what Peterson should have done during the shooting, Israel said he should have "went in, addressed the killer and killed" him.

"Our main goal at this point, absent of helping these families heal and keeping our schools safe, is making sure this killer receives the justice he deserves," Israel previously said.

In 2014, the Broward County Crime Commission awarded Peterson with the title of School Resource Officer of the Year for the City of Parkland District.

The group said Peterson proved "to be reliable in handling issues with tact and judgment."​

So a police officer with full police officer training didn't run into the building to have a shootout with the shooter but the plan is to arm teachers and give them a training course? Do we really expect an officer with a handgun to engage unknown number of assailants with AR-15's? I believe it has been established through the courts, maybe even SCOTUS that they don't have to risk their lives in such a way. The guy froze or "chickened out" but at the end of the day it's a job.

He acted in self preservation. The same way a teacher with a gun would act. He would help keep himself and others around him safe. I dont think people expect the teachers to go around terrorist hunt style

 

[Prime Rib]

Anyone can take an oath. You simply don't know how you will react in that kind of situation. It's a little harsh to judge his basic human instincts, unless you yourself have similar experience.

That goes for bad shoots too. You think you're a hero and have what it takes? Be my fuckin' guest, and go for it. You want unfeeling, no fear, comply or die, robot dudes as cops? Fine by me. Just don't complain when they shoot someone for scratching their ass when they were told to freeze, either.

Says a Canadian. I've heard it all. Let's hear your oath tough guy.

 

[oldshadow]

It would be different if he tried and had to back out because he felt he was out tuned.

He never even tried, never went foward in any way. If he had gotten inside near the gun fire and froze up I would have sympathy for him.

But he made no effort at all.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

We're sure setting a higher bar for this 54 year old guy than we did for all the donut chompers who stood outside of Columbine.

To be fair, those cops had no training for active shooter in school. Compared to this officer who no doubt would be fully aware of the possibility of a school shooter