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Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Shoemaker, Mar 19, 2017.
I thought his corner stopped it?
I think Canelo's ability to set up stuff guys dont see coming and his commitment to the big punch when he gets that opening is underrated. And we can only imagine how much better he'll be next fight. I havent seen him peak yet.
The way he hung in there getting schooled by The Sexy and still almost finished him in the 12th showed he can dig deep and put punches together. We can only hope THAT guy steps in the ring against Canelo. Fireworks for sure, cause like you guys said, Canelo aint goin anywhere and will be fine with trying to prove he's the true Mexican Warrior. I actually think thats the reason for this fight getting done.
I really dont think he cares so much about that title more than being "The Man" period, in all of boxing. He can get stripped, still make a fight with GGG, after beating Chavez Jr. Somehow win the GGG fight and his resume starts approaching legendary status....all people would want then is a Ward fight for all the marbles, end of story, Winner is undisputed P4P #1 and getting on ATG lists. MW title or not. That may be the bigger picture... (Ward maybe a stretch but thatd be the only guy left).
Yeah, it will be his defense and ability to adjust.
i think the power is a concern for saul, same w/golovkin; canelo feels he can box w/anyone, but his team knows saul isnt a big hitter and as good as he is/can be defensively. You can and will land big in spots; question is do you have the life altering power, kirkland could crack; but lack of off refinement and porous def allowed saul to get away from and make him pay for his attempts.
jacibs too long and mobile and skilled to get controlled by a non puncher like saul, golovkin to deliberate technical and tough to be controlled like that by saul.
not saying he cant beat either; but i think his team concern in either case isnt stylistic; it is considering the power of both guys and their ability to apply it. Golovkin stylistically is a easy fight ; but his durability and power make it risky, jacobs stylistically is diff. But his power / sixe make it a diff fight as well...
I'll add that Jacobs would be required to have a rehydration clause , not going let him get that wieght.
GGG is only a money thing , Oscar is pretty confident Canelo beats GGG
In some ways Jacobs could be a bigger stylistic issue for Canelo than Golovkin. I think both beat Canelo, but the way Jacobs boxed and moved against Golovkin, someone far better on the front foot than Canelo, suggests to me that Canelo would have a hard time getting his offense off with any regularity.
As much as Jacobs is the bigger framed man than Canelo, Canelo has come in the mid 170s (where Jacobs came in) before. Rehydration clauses would cut both ways (and it appears Canelo has started to put on even more mass).
I'm not sure his size advantage aided him that much against Khan, looking at the fight, Canelo would have benefited more if he was naturally 10lbs lighter and able to move quicker. Pretty much anyone 140+ can KO Khan if they land a shot like that, but boxing with him is a different ball game. Khan would box the shit out of someone like Curtis Stevens until he finally gets caught. With that said, it helps that he has his natural strength to rely on. Lara fights the same against pretty much everyone too, he definitely felt the body shots but he took the headshots very well. That's another fight where I think being naturally lighter would have benefitted Canelo, he wasn't really able to assert his size for any prolonged moment of time. He essentially beat both of these fighters at their own game, boxing at distance.
Liam Smith just wasn't at the same level, I don't think he was landing the type of shots that would ever bother Canelo, nor do I think an extra 10lbs would have allowed him to take the body shots anywhere, but maybe he'd have been able to slow Canelo down a bit more, it's hard to speculate on this as it's all hypothetical.
I think it's forgotten a little that Canelo has already fought natural size middleweights who are bigger than him. If Canelo is naturally a MW fighting at JMW, then so are Trout, Angulo and Kirkland, the latter two hit very hard and probably weigh in a similar size to GGG on the night. Cotto also clearly hit very hard at MW, whether he was one or not, and he was barely able to get Canelo's attention with his power, so I think the signs are all positive in terms of his chin.
It's hard to say whether Canelo will suddenly not be able to take the shots of the bigger men at MW, but I'd say it's fair to argue that he'll probably be getting hit with less shots when he fights a slower guy like Lemiuex, and his offense should be more potent in terms of being able to land. I still think these advantage of fighting at MW outweigh the associated risks. I'd favor Canelo over Lemiuex more than I would Lara right now, and that's an important point because there's not many fighters at MW who fight like Lara.
I think that's the main thing, regardless of how much size factored into the results, Canelo struggled with Lara and Trout because they were a stylistic nightmare for him, and up at Middleweight, everyone seems to be right up his street in terms of style.
Canelo has fought some big guys at 154, but only Trout could be considered talented. Angulo and Kirkland were showcase fights, they were completely outclassed. There was a time when Angulo would have been a decent opponent, but when Canelo fought him he was finished. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it was a comeback fight following a bad loss. Angulo was exactly what he needed. Kirkland was another great showcase fight, nothing wrong with that one either.
I don't think Lemieux is slow. I actually think his hands are fairly quick, he just is not a good boxer so GGG was able to shut him down with superior skills. Lemieux's hands looked pretty quick against Stevens though.
I would favor Canelo over Lara more now than I did the first time. Canelo has gotten better, and Lara has not done anything to make me think he's improved. I'd favor Canelo over Lemieux too, but I'd have a little thought in the back of my head that questions how well Canelo will deal with big time middleweight power from a guy who can barely make 160 like Lemieux. Cotto had trouble hitting him clean, so I assume Lemieux would too. But the way Lemieux swats, I think he can cause disorientation even with a glancing blow.
It would hurt Jacobs a lot more . I'd add a smaller ring as well .
We'll see, but I thought Canelo looked yoked in his recent videos. He's going to come in right at 164 or 163. Probably lower, 163. Both guys are flat footed. Canelo is going to use speed to bust up Chavez Jr. Julio is going to step in, either eat a jab or an uppercut, and then try to defend against the next few punches. He'll find success in these exchanges because he's strong, but it won't last.
Chavez has the strength to end it with one punch but the odds are low. If Canelo can find Amir's body, he's find Chavez no problem. And come the 7th or 8th rounds, Julio will be eating some big shots upstairs because he can't quite get his feet where he wants to in time. Chavez Jr. wants to fight the same way Golovkin does (head-in-chest), but he's always been so much bigger that he never had to get that good at it, which is why guys like Fonfara could beat him.
I still pick Jacobs to edge Canelo (I'll show you text messages where I said that before Saturday, too). Golovkin is still a closer fight than people think (lol @ the threads about Canelo walking through GGG). I probably still pick Golovkin there. Jacobs didn't "expose" Golovkin. Gennedy's age didn't betray him. He just stepped up in competition after coming into the pro game relatively late.
The one thing I do want to say, though, is that Canelo is 100% the better counter-puncher than Golovkin is. No doubt, Gennady cuts off the ring better than Saul does. That isn't disputable. But, Canelo counters aggression better than Golovkin too. I mentioned it to people in private before the fight, but Golovkin doesn't do very well when you force him to move backward. I noticed it during the Lemieux fight. He either wants to initiate the exchange, or he gets out of range and resets. But he rarely fights moving backward, if at all. If you can push him onto his back foot, he becomes a lot less dynamic.
@315MMAFighter ya know what? You're good people. What do you think?
I thought we was always bruvas lol.
Same to your bruv. All day every day !!
Forget Oscar PantyOya, who you got if this bout if it was to materialize ?
I'd favor both GGG and Jacobs over the Cinnamon
And Jacobs even more due to movement
Seriously though....why in the foooooooooooooK won't GGG fight Cinnamon ? just why? forget the money bruv. Imo and many others, it's starting to look like GGG is ducking, weaving, back and front flipping as hard as he can to not fight Canelo. Why the hell won't he fight Cinnamon ?
Gennady v Canelo would do amazing in PPV #' s. So why the hell won't Gennady day a word about Carlo and fight him? it is mind boggling