International Germany's Multicultural Experiment: 45% of Migrants Failed German Integration Courses

[Metusalemi]

So even after the massive flood in immigration, Germany still has a lower percentage of Muslims and than Russia? As well as a much lower crime rate than even most 1st world countries?

Can't have high crime rates if you ignore crimes.


Just like UK has been ignoring probably millions of rapes by grooming gangs. Thousands of girls raped multiple times per day for years.

Or like Venezuela has a low rate of infants dying of starvation since the government made it illegal to declare starvation as a cause of death for infants.

Not saying that is what is happening on a large scale in Germany, but you get my point.

 

[Arkain2K]

Well the warroom's has left leaning and right leaning posters . Some times the ideological split is more towards 1 side and sometimes it swings back and other times it is about even. So my point was that the votes should be more even.

Nah. If the question is based purely on logic, like "is the ocean wet?", it shouldn't matter what your political leaning is.

If the votes on this particular poll are evenly split, that would mean half of the W.R should be committed to a Psychiatric Institute for the Criminally Insane.

 

[forum poster]

Can't have high crime rates if you ignore crimes.


Just like UK has been ignoring probably millions of rapes by grooming gangs. Thousands of girls raped multiple times per day for years.

Or like Venezuela has a low rate of infants dying of starvation since the government made it illegal to declare starvation as a cause of death for infants.

Not saying that is what is happening on a large scale in Germany, but you get my point.

Do you get my point though?
Trump cheerleaders like to point to Russia as some kind of White christian nation with a strong leader. Russia today is basically propaganda. They have more Muslims than the UK, Germany and most European countries. They also have a way higher crime rate than most European countries.
Europe is doing way better when it comes to crime. They have a way lower crime rate than a country like Russia. Yet Putin propaganda will have you believe that EU countries are crumbling because they are being over run by Muslims.
The online right wing narrative is basically doing Putins work for him

 

[uppercutbus]

Speaking of crime how's the representation of muslims in France/UK prisons?

Yet Putin propaganda will have you believe that EU countries are crumbling because they are being over run by Muslims.

give it time, the projections aren't fake news.

Then merkel and UK will introduce family reunification for migrants "right to family life" so the numbers could easily balloon even more just like that in addition to simple birth rates.

 

[forum poster]

Speaking of crime how's the representation of muslims in France/UK prisons?


give it time, the projections aren't fake news.

Then merkel and UK will introduce family reunification for migrants "right to family life" so the numbers could easily balloon even more just like that in addition to simple birth rates.

What's the estimation for Germany or the US? 1 percent increase over the next few decades? Am I supposed to be concerned about Blacks, latinos and Asians within the next half century? The future threat of AI and the joblessness it create as well as climate change are the biggest threat to human civilization as a whole. Germany and their 1% increase in crime or Islamism is a blip on the radar.

 

[uppercutbus]

What's the estimation for Germany or the US? 1 percent increase over the next few decades?

Well since we agree about UK and France we can move on, I can't answer for Germany and US as much as I can for Japan and Poland. Having said that, percentage based crime increases compared to against the whole nation or (even more absurd, EU as a whole) doesn't make sense and is setting the bar so high that it's an obvious red herring. If you really want to get a better picture about demographic comparisons and crime what about simply comparing crime demographics or prison population demographics? Sweden (and Germany in the last link) has some interesting stats (1, 2, 3).

 

[Soul Crusher]

So even after the massive flood in immigration, Germany still has a lower percentage of Muslims and than Russia? As well as a much lower crime rate than even most 1st world countries?

Imagine how much better it would be if they weren't there? No fear of being ran over by trucks either during Christmas.

 

[Arkain2K]

Ah, come on now Horst. Finally made it to Berlin and has to spill this BS.
I actually liked a lot of what the CSU brought into the coalition especially capping family reunions and the total number of refugees.

But this stuff is just not correct. You might have no Muslims in a small Bavarian village.
But there is a considerable amount of the German population that is of German blood and born in the Fatherland that happened to be Muslims.
It is certainly a part of Germany.

I'm with you there.

In the U.S, you can be accused of being "far right" if you are opposing to Islamic Extremists or criminals who openly breaks immigration laws, whereas in Europe they have politicians who are straight up against LEGAL immigrants as well as all Muslims.

 

[Arkain2K]

Islam is ‘part of Germany,’ says German president
Controversial interview with Interior Minister Horst Seehofer has sparked new debate over role of Islam.
By ALEKSANDRA WRÓBEL | 3/20/18​

German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier has said he believes there is a place for Islam in Germany, Der Spiegel reported Tuesday.

His statement came in response to comments made by Interior Minister Horst Seehofer last week. The leader of the Bavarian Christian Social Union (CSU) claimed in an interview Islam “doesn’t belong to Germany” and unveiled plans to tighten the country’s immigration policies.

“Of course the Muslims living here do belong to Germany,” Seehofer later added. “My message is: Muslims need to live with us, not next to us or against us.”

Seehofer’s controversial comments were met with approval by the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD), but condemned by every other major party.

The German president on Tuesday urged politicians to focus on discussing policies to boost integration rather than fighting over headlines. Germany should stand by former German President Christian Wulff’s assertion that “Islam is now also part of Germany,” he said.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has taken a similar approach to the debate, saying on Friday: “There are now 4 million Muslims living in Germany and they practice their religion here and these Muslims belong to Germany, as does their religion — Islam.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/islam-germany-is-part-of-says-german-president/

 

[MicroBrew]

Nah. If the question is based purely on logic, like "is the ocean wet?", it shouldn't matter what your political leaning is.

If the votes on this particular poll are evenly split, that would mean half of the W.R should be committed to a Psychiatric Institute for the Criminally Insane.

Ok so if I understand you correctly, you are acknowledging that even the warroom liberals or leftists voted "doomed to fail" because the choice was the logically correct one?

 

[MicroBrew]

Islam is ‘part of Germany,’ says German president
Controversial interview with Interior Minister Horst Seehofer has sparked new debate over role of Islam.
By ALEKSANDRA WRÓBEL | 3/20/18​

German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier has said he believes there is a place for Islam in Germany, Der Spiegel reported Tuesday.

His statement came in response to comments made by Interior Minister Horst Seehofer last week. The leader of the Bavarian Christian Social Union (CSU) claimed in an interview Islam “doesn’t belong to Germany” and unveiled plans to tighten the country’s immigration policies.

“Of course the Muslims living here do belong to Germany,” Seehofer later added. “My message is: Muslims need to live with us, not next to us or against us.”

Seehofer’s controversial comments were met with approval by the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD), but condemned by every other major party.

The German president on Tuesday urged politicians to focus on discussing policies to boost integration rather than fighting over headlines. Germany should stand by former German President Christian Wulff’s assertion that “Islam is now also part of Germany,” he said.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has taken a similar approach to the debate, saying on Friday: “There are now 4 million Muslims living in Germany and they practice their religion here and these Muslims belong to Germany, as does their religion — Islam.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/islam-germany-is-part-of-says-german-president/

1 step forward, then 1 or 2 steps back.

In the case of Merkel, it is 1 step forward and 10,000 steps back. What I mean is her comment some years ago about multiculturalism failing was 1 step forward but the her insistance of housing over 1 million MiddleEasterners and Afghans was 10,000 steps back.

 

[Arkain2K]

Ok so if I understand you correctly, you are acknowledging that even the warroom liberals or leftists voted "doomed to fail" because the choice was the logically correct one?

The problem here is that you seems to be the only one who have extensive knowledge about these rumored WR liberals/leftists who are supposedly against integration in Germany, whereas I'm not sure if they even exists, despite your unsubstanciated claims thus far.

I can't comment on things that, as far as I know, do not exists.

I've already told you to directly tagging these "liberal/leftists" that you thought would be against integration so they could address you directly on the subject matter, but you somehow still failed to think of even one, despite personally bringing this peculiar demographic up yourself.

Do you even know of such people? Or just blowing hot air in a poor attempt to derail this discussion into the same old stale W.R Left vs. W.R Right round-about that have never actually went anywhere?

 

[IIIIIIII]

when will germany move beyond their guilt due to the recent past of nazi germany, and do the right thing by removing immigrants who commit crimes, and work harder on making immigrants learn the german language so they can integrate? everyone knows the answer, yet the germans are afraid of being seen as racist. the breaking point will eventually arrive if nothing changes.

 

[Arkain2K]

Here's an fascinating inside look at Germany's revamped system to separate real refugees from fakers (including returning fighters). It's an extensive read, but once you started, you wouldn't be able to stop til the end, as it's probably the best article you've seen in the WR this month:

The Refugee Detectives
Inside Germany’s high-stakes operation to sort people fleeing death from opportunists and pretenders
GRAEME WOOD | MAR 15, 2018​

The headquarters of Germany’s Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge, or Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (known by its acronym, bamf), is an enormous, echoing building in the city of Nuremberg. Prisoners of the Nazi regime put the final touches on the structure in the 1940s. bamfis among the most politically sensitive bureaucracies in the German state today. The agency’s workers told me they faced procrustean criticism, from right-wingers who view them as refugee huggers and, more rarely, from lefties who say they are bureaucratic cover for a mass-deportation op. “One side thinks we are bleeding hearts, and the other says we are fascists,” a staffer told me. Picture Lady Liberty with a Birkenstock on one foot and a jackboot on the other.

bamf decides which of the millions of migrants who have washed into Germany will be permitted to stay. All asylum applicants are interviewed by the agency. In response to the influx, the government has stepped up its efforts to make that process expeditious and compassionate. But it has also begun to make the process more aggressive in detecting fraud, and thus more pleasing to nationalists who want the flow to stop altogether.

To get a sense of these interviews, imagine the following game. You meet someone who claims to be from your hometown, and you have to decide whether he’s telling the truth. You can ask him anything you like: Which high school did you attend? What color is city hall? Do people get around on buses or trains? Is there a McDonald’s? If so, where? The other player may prepare however he wishes, memorizing facts, maps, events. If he convinces you, he gets a million dollars. If he doesn’t convince you, he dies. You have 10 minutes to decide.

bamf investigators have played a version of this game roughly 1 million times in the past three years. Does the applicant come from where he claims to? Would he really fear for his life if he returns? The interview is conducted by a government employee who usually has no direct experience of the country the applicant claims to have fled. I exaggerate the game’s stakes only slightly: The prize is legal status in a society safe and wealthy beyond the imagination of an average Syrian or Afghan. The penalty, in the worst case, is a one-way ticket to a country that may or may not torture him to death.

bamf has developed techniques to play the game—training government employees as human lie detectors, then fanning them out across the country. In December, I visited bamf operations in Nuremberg and Berlin, meeting executives and staff and sitting in on interviews with asylum-seekers. bamf’s leaders are cautious about letting members of the media observe their agency’s techniques, and after several days I understood why: Some methods are secret and, if revealed, potentially useless. (I was the first journalist granted broad access, and then only under the condition that I obscure certain details, in part to protect the privacy of applicants.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/554090/

 

[The ScorpioN]

I like Graeme Wood.

He had a great conversation with Sam Harris.

 

[Arkain2K]

I like Graeme Wood.

He had a great conversation with Sam Harris.

I have no idea who the author was, but clearly he got some writing skills!

 

[Bald1]

Here's an fascinating inside look at Germany's revamped system to separate real refugees from fakers (including returning fighters). It's an extensive read, but once you started, you wouldn't be able to stop til the end, as it's probably the best article you've seen in the WR this month:

The Refugee Detectives
Inside Germany’s high-stakes operation to sort people fleeing death from opportunists and pretenders
GRAEME WOOD | MAR 15, 2018​

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/554090/

That was a fair and balanced article. Good read. Thanks.

 

[Arkain2K]

Asylum Seeker Who Lied He Was a Child Refugee Before Raping and Murdering E.U Official’s Daughter Is Given 15-Year Sentence
By Zachary Stieber | March 22, 2018​

A refugee who sought asylum in Germany was given a sentence on Thursday, March 22, after being convicted of raping and murdering a 19-year-old girl.

Hussein Khavari claimed he was 17 when he committed the crime in 2016 but testing in his teeth showed he was at least 22 years of age.

Khavari broke down and asked for forgiveness during the trial, reported The Daily Mail. Judge Kathrin Schenk told him that he will serve life in prison, condemning his “lack of empathy.”

The courtroom broke out in applause when the sentence was given.

However, under German law life in prison means only 15 years behind bars with no chance of parole. There is a possibility of “security detention”afterward if officials believe the convict still poses a threat to society.

Germany opened its borders to the flood of refugees from Afghanistan, Syria, and other countries in recent years but has been facing an increasing backlash from some of its citizens due to crimes such as the ones Khavari committed.

Khavari told the court that he smoked hashish and drank copiously the night he encountered 19-year-old Maria Ladenburger, the daughter of a European Union official, in Freiberg, reported AFP.

He said he was kicked out of a bar before coming across the girl as she fell from her bicycle.

The refugee said he choked her with a scarf, although he denied raping her despite evidence that led to his conviction of that crime.

“When I saw how pretty she was, I wanted to have sex with her,” he said, adding that he dragged the girl into the river because he “wanted to wash her blood from me.”

The judge revealed that Khavari knew he was killing the girl.

“He knew that she was still alive as he laid her in the Dreisam [River], that she would drown, that she had to drown,” Schenk said, reported BBC.

Prosecutors disputed his account, saying the murder was premeditated. And a psychiatric expert said that Khavari’s expressed remorse was fake, adding that in his analysis there was a “high risk” of Khavari committing another crime if freed.

The judge learned that Khavari was convicted of attempted murder in Greece in 2013 for pushing a woman off of a cliff but was let out of jail in 2015 due to jail overcrowding before traveling to Germany.

Though Khavari said he is from Afghanistan, he lied about being a child refugee. Officials said postings on Khavari’s phone and social media accounts indicated that he lived in Iran before traveling through Europe.

The BBC reported that his father lives in Iran and told officials that Khavari is much older than his stated age, with some reports stating that Khavari is as old as 32.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/asylu...cials-daughter-is-given-sentence_2472536.html

 

[Arkain2K]

Fake "Child Refugee" Guilty of Raping and Murdering E.U Official's Daughter
Richard Hartley-Parkinson | Mar 22, 2018

Hussein Khavari, "17", killer of the medical student Maria Ladenburger ​

An asylum seeker claiming to be from Afghanistan was Thursday sentenced to life in jail in Germany for the rape and murder of a student that stoked a public backlash against a mass influx of migrants.

Hussein Khavari, of uncertain age and origin, was found guilty of the deadly night-time attack on medical student Maria Ladenburger, 19, in October 2016 in the university town of Freiburg.

Khavari pushed her off her bicycle as she was riding home alone from a party, then bit, choked and repeatedly raped her and left her on the bank of a river where she drowned.

Presiding judge Kathrin Schenk condemned the extreme ‘lack of empathy’ of Khavari, who was handcuffed and wearing a black hooded jumper, before reading out the verdict and sentence, which were greeted with applause in the courtroom.

She handed down the maximum sentence of life in prison, which under German law means 15 years behind bars, with no chance of parole and the possibility of ‘security detention’ afterwards if the convict is still deemed to pose a threat to society.

Schenk said she saw almost no chance of rehabilitation, telling Khavari that ‘you would have to become an entirely different human being’.

Khavari had been arrested seven weeks after the murder, following a huge manhunt in the town near the French border.

Medical student Maria Ladenburger​

Police had found a black hair partially dyed blond at the scene, then spotted Khavari by his hairstyle on security camera footage and linked him to the crime using his DNA.

As the crime sparked public anger and revulsion, social media users posted sarcastic ‘thank you’ messages to Chancellor Angela Merkel over her liberal policy that brought more than one million refugees and migrants to the country.

During the trial, prosecutor Eckart Berger had reminded the two jurors sitting alongside three judges that ‘on trial is a criminal offender and not Germany’s refugee policy’.

Khavari arrived in Germany, without identity papers, in November 2015, near the peak of the refugee influx, as an unaccompanied minor claiming to be 16 or 17 years old and hailing from Afghanistan.

A police officer told the court that Khavari’s cellphone and social media accounts suggested he had lived in Iran.

Khavari was sent to live with a German host family in the picturesque town on the edge of the Black Forest, went to a local school, learnt German and received state benefits.

It emerged only after his arrest that he had already committed a violent crime in May 2013 in Greece, where he pushed a woman off a cliff on the island of Corfu, leaving her badly injured.

He was sentenced there in February 2014 to 10 years jail for attempted murder but was granted a conditional release from Greece’s overcrowded jails in October 2015.

He fled to Germany, where authorities knew nothing of his criminal past because Greece had only issued a nationwide warrant, and because no match was detected in an EU-wide fingerprint data base for asylum seekers.

Khavari was initially tried as a juvenile offender, but the court accepted expert opinions, based on X-rays and dental analysis, that he is now aged between 22 and 29.

The defendant had admitted to the crime, but claimed diminished culpability because he was under the influence of alcohol and drugs – a position which his defence said it would argue again in an appeal.

Khavari had also claimed that his father died long ago in a battle against Afghanistan’s Taliban.

Judge Schenk in December dialled a number on Khavari’s cellphone and reached his father, who told her through an interpreter that he was living in Iran.

http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/22/asylum-seeker-claimed-child-refugee-jailed-rape-murder-7407892/

 

[Arkain2K]

Immigration row overshadows start of German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s fourth term
AFP-JIJI | Apr 6, 2018

​

BERLIN – A scuffle over immigration has marred the first weeks in office of German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s fourth coalition, promising anything but smooth sailing in the years ahead for the loveless left-right alliance.

Conservatives among Merkel’s Christian Democrats are keen to restrict as heavily as possible so-called family reunifications that would allow some of the million-plus migrants and refugees who have arrived since 2015 to bring in relatives.

That has stirred the ire of Social Democrats (SPD), the reluctant junior partners who helped Merkel into office to end the longest period of post-election limbo in post-World War II German history.

In their painstakingly negotiated coalition deal, the parties agreed that up to 1,000 people per month could enter Germany under family reunification, with only immediate relatives eligible.

New Interior Minister Horst Seehofer is eager to tighten the screws further, with a draft law that would prevent people dependent on social benefits from bringing in family members and further restrict which relations are eligible, including ruling out siblings.

Many people who arrived in Germany as refugees are yet to join the labor market, undergoing job training or language classes, and would therefore not qualify.

Seehofer is a former leader of the ultra-conservative CSU, the smaller Bavarian sister party of Merkel’s more centrist CDU.

He is keen to burnish his outfit’s anti-immigration credentials ahead of a state election later this year, when they will face a stiff challenge from anti-Islam, anti-immigration party Alternative for Germany (AfD).

“We don’t want an influx into the social system. That’s also how we’ve discussed this within the coalition,” he told Der Spiegel magazine’s Saturday edition.

Two years ago, Seehofer blasted Merkel’s 2015 decision to open Germany’s borders to refugees arriving in Europe via the so-called Balkan route from the Middle East, saying it had produced a “rule of injustice” in Europe’s most populous nation.

Arriving in his Berlin ministry after being ejected from the state premiership in prosperous Bavaria, he lost no time before stirring up controversy with a declaration that “Islam does not belong to Germany,” which is home to around 4 million Muslims.

Social democrats, already smarting from the concessions made on immigration in the coalition agreement, have bristled at Seehofer’s sallies in the media and at the draft law.

Justice Minister Heiko Maas declared that “we will not agree to any draft which we consider to be mainly aimed at reducing numbers” allowed to enter Germany.

But Seehofer’s CSU party colleagues have backed him to the hilt.

“If the Social Democrats don’t cooperate, the ‘grand coalition’ would be over” less than a month after Merkel was sworn in, deputy leader of the conservative parliamentary group Georg Nuesslein told the Augsburger Allgemeine newspaper.

The family reunification row is just one front in a broader battle over immigration, integration and Islam in German society that has pitted the SPD against the CDU/CSU.

Seehofer is also keen to speed up expulsions of people whose asylum applications are refused, many of whom spend months or years contesting the decisions in the courts or acquire a “tolerated” residence status.

After weeks of mud-slinging, some among the conservatives are uncomfortable with the relentless focus on such themes.

“The question is: do we really win elections by naming the topics that stir people up without changing anything?” asked Armin Laschet, CDU state premier of North Rhine-Westphalia.

Merkel will be counting on the support of moderates like Laschet to contain bubbling discontent on the right of her party.

Health Minister Jens Spahn, a rising star of the CDU’s right wing seen as a potential future candidate for the chancellorship, has spent his first weeks in office giving interviews urging more “law and order” in troubled city districts.

He has also chided feminist pro-abortion campaigners, saying they cared more about animal rights than unborn children, and declared that long-term unemployed people were not poor.

A government spokesman said Spahn’s statements were his “personal” views, not government policy.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...llor-angela-merkels-fourth-term/#.Wt1ubH9lCM8