Genetics Changing Understanding Of 'Race'?

Per the mods, you can't discuss medical differences (used every day to inform differentials for clinicians) among different populations of people.... because the only difference is skin color. Don't worry @Limbo Pete, I set him straight.
I'm not worried about anything, bruh. Personally, i've never ran afoul of forum guidelines on racism.
If you can talk science without being racist, then there's no reason for you to worry either. As mentioned in the OP edit, genetics is a perfectly legitimate topic of discussion.
 
Fanatics often have a very different definition of racism than rational people.

A perfect example is the recent podcast and the subsequent treatment of Sam Harris and Charles Murray.

 
Rod do you accept that different populations of people have different predispositions for certain genetic diseases, or do you think that's not a legitimate thing in medicine, because the only difference among groups formerly isolated for tens of thousands of years in different ecological climates was their skin color?

Indeed. Thats doesnt stops race from being a social classification as opposed to a scientific one.
 
Indeed. Thats doesnt stops race from being a social classification as opposed to a scientific one.

The fact that there are reliable biological differences reflected by assignment by race, doesn't?
 
The fact that there are reliable biological differences reflected by assignment by race, doesn't?

Do you think blondes are a different race to brunettes?
 
Race is not a thing. It’s bullshit made up by lazy minds. It’s just complete fiction.

Ethnic group is a better way to define people but it’s still a loose application.

We need a better way to define similar groups of people on a genetic level.

There is no way this is true. Race is 1000% a thing. You can change the definition of anything to get funding.

There are obvious physical and mental differences.

Why are certain 'races' more prone to certain diseases? Do these diseases look at social constructs?

What's the difference between a race and an ethnic group? Is it how you define a word?
 
Do you think blondes are a different race to brunettes?

Totally the same thing lol.
The difference between caucasian, black and asian is exactly the same as blonde and brunette hair.
 
What is white? Benjamin Franklin had this own ideas.

Benjamin Franklin was alarmed by the influx of German immigrants to Pennsylvania. The German immigrants were lacking in a liberal political tradition, the English language, and English culture. In Paragraph 23 of the essay "Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries", Franklin wrote:

"Why should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our settlements, and by herding together establish their languages and manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our language or customs, any more than they can acquire our complexion?"

Emerson Professor John Trimbur finds that Franklin’s main concern over the growth of unassimilated Germans is the threat to English culture and language. This becomes racial when Franklin concocts categories of his own invention to deny that Germans are whites. Franklin favored immigration of Anglo-Saxons, who, according to Ormond Seavey, he identifies as the only "White People" among the various peoples of the world. Such views have been condemned as racist in more recent literature.

If only this thread was about someone's opinion from the 1800s. History repeats itself. I just don't want to be alive during WW3 and see it getting closer.

Information is good, it's what you do with said information that can define you.

A mix is always good. Inbreeding just messes up everyone as I'm sure your uncle/mother/cousin will tell you.

I just get pissed about billionaires throwing lives away in wars for a new gold toilet in their summer house loft.
 
The majority of the world knows race is real. I dont care what you guys think in the west
race is real but HOW you define race is often done by subjective means.

where does white begin and end? europe? defining europe is subjective because of shifting borders. does a turk become white of he was born in europe? most would say "no"...then that means using europe as a measuring stick is ruled out.

how much white do you need?
100%? 90%? as long as you look white?

then white is all about the way you look....genetics really dont matter much then...just pigmentation.

so to those who think whites have a higher i.q. how does pigmentation determine your intelligence?

its all stupid.

to me...100% white is white. having the main haplogroups found in the average european is white like r1b and r1a.
 
So ppl living in proximity of each other tend to look similar as opposed to someone living far away?

Makes sense
 
Totally the same thing lol.
The difference between caucasian, black and asian is exactly the same as blonde and brunette hair.

You’re missing the point

Where you draw the line between “races” is subjective n has no real scientific backing

Brunettes n blondes could be considered different races same way some ppl don’t consider middle easterners/west Asians as “white”
 
And it may not be how you think.

From the lengthy New York Times Op-Ed piece (for the post-literate TL;DR era crowd) from Harvard geneticist David Reich, full details in the hyperlink below. Anyone who studies or works in human genetics, molecular biology or bio-chemistry has known this but it's a rather controversial and emotive subject to speak about publicly even on a scientific level. It's a fact that any two humans are 99.9% genetically identical, but that's kind of misleading in a way considering the 0.1% accounts for some three million differences across the genome with 20,000 of them being protein coding genes.

It's rather easy to see why a prolific evolutionary biologist like Jerry Coyne opts to use the term 'ethnic groups' when he writes about "race" even though it's yet another relative social construct which doesn't quite match, but at least with that there actually are loose associations to be made such as with Y-DNA haplogroups and specific SNP's although it's by no means some kind of rule. Every country in Europe has several prominent groups within its own population, but at the same time you could look at me and guess (accurately) that I'm not O-M175, for instance.

How Genetics Is Changing Our Understanding Of 'Race'

(Excerpt)

In this way, a consensus was established that among human populations there are no differences large enough to support the concept of “biological race.” Instead, it was argued, race is a “social construct,” a way of categorizing people that changes over time and across countries. It is true that race is a social construct. It is also true, as Dr. Lewontin wrote, that human populations “are remarkably similar to each other” from a genetic point of view.

But over the years this consensus has morphed, seemingly without questioning, into an orthodoxy. The orthodoxy maintains that the average genetic differences among people grouped according to today’s racial terms are so trivial when it comes to any meaningful biological traits that those differences can be ignored.

The orthodoxy goes further, holding that we should be anxious about any research into genetic differences among populations. The concern is that such research, no matter how well-intentioned, is located on a slippery slope that leads to the kinds of pseudoscientific arguments about biological difference that were used in the past to try to justify the slave trade, the eugenics movement and the Nazis’ murder of six million Jews. I have deep sympathy for the concern that genetic discoveries could be misused to justify racism.

As a geneticist I also know that it is simply no longer possible to ignore average genetic differences among “races.”

Groundbreaking advances in DNA sequencing technology have been made over the last two decades. These advances enable us to measure with exquisite accuracy what fraction of an individual’s genetic ancestry traces back to, say, West Africa 500 years ago - before the mixing in the Americas of the West African and European gene pools that were almost completely isolated for the last 70,000 years. With the help of these tools, we are learning that while race may be a social construct, differences in genetic ancestry that happen to correlate to many of today’s racial constructs are real.

Recent genetic studies have demonstrated differences across populations not just in the genetic determinants of simple traits such as skin color, but also in more complex traits like bodily dimensions and susceptibility to diseases. For example, we now know that genetic factors help explain why northern Europeans are taller on average than southern Europeans, why multiple sclerosis is more common in European-Americans than in African-Americans, and why the reverse is true for end-stage kidney disease.

I am worried that well-meaning people who deny the possibility of substantial biological differences among human populations are digging themselves into an indefensible position, one that will not survive the onslaught of science. I am also worried that whatever discoveries are made - and we truly have no idea yet what they will be - will be cited as “scientific proof” that racist prejudices and agendas have been correct all along, and that those well-meaning people will not understand the science well enough to push back against these claims.

This is why it is important, even urgent, that we develop a candid and scientifically up-to-date way of discussing any such differences, instead of sticking our heads in the sand and being caught unprepared when they are found.


Mod Note: This forum is not a platform for IQ/Biological racism, which is a violation of forum guidelines. Discussing science is one thing, claiming that science supports racism is another. If you feel like you're crossing a line, you probably are. Don't post it.

wait no scratch that.
 
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If only this thread was about

Err, I started the thread - read it maybe? - and I'm a bio-chem grad, I have a reasonably good handle on what it's about. The Franklin anecdote was actually facetious there although I don't think you grasp the ramifications of it on US history in particular, which have persisted almost up to present day. That's a bit of a different conversation though which already gets enough play in the WR as it is.
 
You’re missing the point

Where you draw the line between “races” is subjective n has no real scientific backing

Brunettes n blondes could be considered different races same way some ppl don’t consider middle easterners/west Asians as “white”

Semantics. It has a "scientific" backing as long as your science agrees with what you believe right?

Why are some 'races' more susceptible to certain diseases? Because they're a certain race or a social construct?

Physical and mental/emotional differences will always be looked at first.

We don't look at each other on the dna level.

In a closed society of all blondes, brunettes would be ostracized or revered and vice versa.
 
Err, I started the thread - read it maybe? - and I'm a bio-chem grad, I have a reasonably good handle on what it's about. The Franklin anecdote was actually facetious there although I don't think you grasp the ramifications of it on US history in particular, which have persisted almost up to present day. That's a bit of a different conversation though which already gets enough play in the WR as it is.

Please use more big words and tell us more about your bio-chem classes.

And everything after that was gibberish or a "different conversation" as the super smart like you like to say.
 
WorldofWarcraft got banned in this thread? Sad.

lol @ "IQ racism"

Generally speaking there are smart and dumb people from all races, but culture and living conditions can definitely go hand and hand with IQ. If every other possible human characteristic can be genetically linked why can't intelligence be? I think it would be dishonest to say otherwise.

global-iq-scores-black-white-asian-hispanic-arab-large.png
 
Semantics. It has a "scientific" backing as long as your science agrees with what you believe right?

Why are some 'races' more susceptible to certain diseases? Because they're a certain race or a social construct?

Physical and mental/emotional differences will always be looked at first.

We don't look at each other on the dna level.

In a closed society of all blondes, brunettes would be ostracized or revered and vice versa.

If you acknowledge that in a society of mostly blondes n few brunettes, brunettes will be ostracized/revered then you agree that race is a social contract n not scientific.

Also like I said earlier ppl who live in proximity of each other tend to look similar, have similar diets n health issues, while those who live further away tend to be different. That in itself doesn’t make them different race

What if diabetes is associeties with those who are considered black n Alzheimer’s is associated with those considered white

If then a white person has diabetes n doesn’t have Alzheimer’s do you stop considering them white n consider them black instead?
 
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