Game of Thrones S07E03 Discussion Thread (WARNING: Episode 4 Leaked. SPOILERS will be BANNED)

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Yet you can forgive the murdering, thieving, deserting Hound because you like him.
I don't want to derail this thread because you are butt hurt and now lying about my position.

I could retort and you said Cersei has done nothing wrong and we can both keep lying about each others positions instead of debating a tricky moral issue honestly You clearly want the former and I don't want this for this thread so lets just ignore each other on this issue.
 
Karl Popper would have sex with Jamie Lannister, that is the last moral argument I will make
 
Quantity is the very crux of the trolley problem and comes up quite a bit in discussions on utilitarian ethics

I don't think you've read your Michael Sandell (who they teach in first year, lmao)
Sorry but you simply do not know how to follow the logic of the position and it leads you to these wrong examples.

The question of quantity here has nothing, NOTHING, to do with my example above where you say it is ok for Jamie if it is only 1 or 2 he kills but wrong if 3 or more.

This moral dilemma question you cite uses a situation where you are given two outcomes either of which is inevitable and you must choose or not to impact that situation. It would be the hardest type of moral dilemma for almost anyone to be put in and a proper ethical question to debate.

If you were Teaching that ethics class and when the trolley dilemma was offered up you said 'wait I have another example from GoT that parallels the dilemma in the Trolley example' and you then offered up the Jamie dilemma saying 'here is the dilemma. I am not going to tell you if he used this logic for killing only 2 individuals at two different times, or 3 or more at different times'.

That you think these are in any way comparables would make me embarrassed for you as a teacher. Sorry. You would be laughed out of the class.
 
Sorry but you simply do not know how to follow the logic of the position and it leads you to these wrong examples.

The question of quantity here has nothing, NOTHING, to do with my example above where you say it is ok for Jamie if it is only 1 or 2 he kills but wrong if 3 or more.

This moral dilemma question you cite uses a situation where you are given two outcomes either of which is inevitable and you must choose or not to impact that situation. It would be the hardest type of moral dilemma for almost anyone to be put in and a proper ethical question to debate.

If you were Teaching that ethics class and when the trolley dilemma was offered up you said 'wait I have another example from GoT that parallels the dilemma in the Trolley example' and you then offered up the Jamie dilemma saying 'here is the dilemma. I am not going to tell you if he used this logic for killing only 2 individuals at two different times, or 3 or more at different times'.

That you think these are in any way comparables would make me embarrassed for you as a teacher. Sorry. You would be laughed out of the class.

I really wouldn't be laughed out of the class, but I feel like your jimmies have been rustled based on how you've started posting and I will leave you alone now.

For anyone interested:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.red...ilers_all_jaime_lannister_and_the_philosophy/
 
I stopped watching the show around Joffries death and picked it up again with the lastest ep last week when I was at a friend's house. Few thoughts...

1. I feel like i haven't missed anything important
2. Jon Snow isn't an annoying shithead anymore...good for him
3. How come Khaleesi is sitting on her ass all this time while she has three full grown dragons that can melt stone? Why isn't she running shit by now?
4. Poor Theon, his character really can't catch a break
5. Why is the hot ginger witch that gave birth to Venom now a good guy?
6. Cersie is stone fucking cold. Holy shit that poisoning scene was brutal
7. Should I even bother with eariler seasons?

You missed out on all the great Dorne stuff and the bad ass Sand Snakes.

Sucks to be you.
 
I really wouldn't be laughed out of the class, but I feel like your jimmies have been rustled based on how you've started posting and I will leave you alone now.

For anyone interested:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.red...ilers_all_jaime_lannister_and_the_philosophy/



.....but but Paul Bernado.....killing 3 is worse than killing 1?.........of course Jaime is evil.......the Hound is morally ambiguous. Paul Bernado blah blah blah. <Insert random pseudo psychology here.>



ps I never said the Hound was morally ambiguous, you liar.


pps Paul Bernado.
 
For fun:



.....but but Paul Bernado.....killing 3 is worse than killing 1?.........of course Jaime is evil.......the Hound is morally ambiguous. Paul Bernado blah blah blah.



ps I never said the Hound was morally ambiguous, you liar.


pps Paul Bernado.

lol I got nothing against Mike McMann I like him. It was a fun chat and I'm not that invested in it. I would rather not argue any further. I am starting to get rude.
 
Another video just for fun. A montage of Arya's storyline. I forgot how many kills she's had. Some of the scenes are out of order though. No spoilers, it only goes up to the Walder Frey scene. **Also, a question: This video says it was published in July 2016. How did they get a clip of the Arya / Walder Frey scene? I don't remember them giving away that scene in any previews.



Speaking of Arya. I think an Arya spinoff would be pretty cool. So far most people are thinking about prequel spinoffs. I'd like to see stories moving ahead and Arya would be perfect because at the end of ASOIF, she doesn't really have a place in Winterfell. She's changed. I don't think she will be killed off and her story shouldn't end being confined within the walls of Winterfell. She needs to go on adventures. Maybe visit the parts of the world that aren't on the map.
 
Arya is different, because she is actually the only Stark that knows that everyone is waiting to fuck you over, and you dont trust anybody, you keep your guard up for betrayal at all times
 
Man people can really spin (fake news) things then they want to rationalize someone as better than they are. Wow.

No Ned did not kill that guy because he ran from WW's. When judging Ned his rationale and reasoning matters even if he is wrong. And he was killing him for what was considered an unforgivable and death warranting crime of running away form the Knights Watch.

Certainly there's extenuating circumstances at play. The guy had some extreme PTSD after not just seeing some things that weren't supposed to exist, but also seeing them brutally murder his people and toss a head at him. Ned didn't believe him and killed him. He could have sent him back to the Wall and had him imprisoned or many other things. The Night's Watch isn't even taken nearly as seriously as it used to be. Plenty of rules have been broken without any real punishment, but you want to rationalize the killing of some poor guy with PTSD because he did what many others would have done? Be reasonable and cut the guy some fucking slack. Unforgivable and death warranting crime? Give me a break with that nonsense. Hell, Janos didn't get punished at all for hiding with Gilly, and that was worse. Jon later killed him simply for disobeying an order even with him changing his mind and saying he'd do it. Janos got killed after finally growing some balls.

How are you going to rationalize for Cat? She judged Tyrion guilty without any real evidence. Tyrion saved her life when he could have taken off on a horse, but she was still determined to have him killed. Cat killed a girl simply because she was married to Walder Frey. Like being married to him wasn't bad enough... Then, there's the Stark nepotism. Cat betrays Robb and releases Jaime, which weakens their position in the war, but she gets a light slap on the wrist. Rickard gets decapitated. Yeah, what Rickard did was worse, but he got the the full punishment while Cat got a light slap on the wrist. Bran's negligence got people killed. How can you rationalize for him?

In our world Jaime looks bad, but he doesn't look as bad in the GoT world. I never said Jaime was a great person by the way. If you want to look at him in a harsh light, then shine that same harsh light on everyone, and not conveniently pick and choose.

Yes every murder is the same if you strip away context. A serial killer killing innocents and a person killing attackers of his family can all be called equal if we strip away context.

Huh? What attackers? The Night's Watchmen Ned murdered wasn't attacking his family, Janos wasn't attacking anyone, Walder's wife wasn't attacking anyone, and Tyrion wasn't attacking anyone and even saved Cat's life. Bran got people killed due to his negligence.

But context matters. Ned and Jamie have no business being compared due to outcome of actions stripped of context.

Would Ned have held to honor and not killed the Mad King, and let more and more people die horrific deaths when he could have done something though it would have hurt his precious honor?
 
After everything that's been said about today's EP, excitement levels are bubbling.
 
Arya is different, because she is actually the only Stark that knows that everyone is waiting to fuck you over, and you dont trust anybody, you keep your guard up for betrayal at all times

I agree, of the Starks, Arya is probably the most hardened, but Sansa is starting to wise up to how the real world works. Jon may seem to be a little naive at times but it's often because he is put in the situation where he has no choice but to trust people.
 
Tywin was a can when it came to his own family. He threw his weight around,but in the end they just fucked him up,and never did anything he told them to do anymore. Cersei didnt marry Loras,and Tyrion didnt consummate his marriage to Sansa. Cersei and Jamie fucked all the time,and Jamie stayed on kingsguard duty despite Tywin wanting him back at Casterly Rock. Maybe if he actually loved his fuckin kids they wouldnt need to be doing all this shit,but he didnt,and you can only kick a dog so much before it bits and Tyrion shot that dude with a motherfucking crossbow. Tyrion was smarter,and a nicer person and thats why he is alive and Tywin is dead.
Uh, I know the story of the Lannisters, nothing in your post really has anything to do with Tywin not knowing about Tyrion's whore cave or not wanting Tyrion, as the Hand of the King, whoring around King's Landing.

You are blaming Cersei's & Jaimie's incest on Tywin being a cold father?? That is a little extreme to believe, then again so is that Cersei & Jaimie were able to keep their affair secret for so many years at Casterly Rock and King's Landing (so much for those little birds)..

Perhaps Tyrion is smarter than Tywin, after all, Tywin didn't have the foresight to follow through with his thoughts of drowning Tyrion at birth. And then Tywin moved to war to get Tyrion back when Cat Stark kidnapped the Imp.

Tywin is dead because Tyrion is willing to kill his kin while Tywin was not.
Yes, Tywin is dead but his commentary on Tyrion is proving true so far, "[Tyrion] is low cunning."
Tyrion managed to get outsmarted and framed for murder by a whore, picked a hot headed fool for his champion, murdered the aforementioned whore in a pitiful fit of rage and then killed his own father and thus almost certainly turned Jaimie against him until one of them dies.

Now his pride and arrogance have decimated Dany's forces. His plan got the Ironcans burned, the sand snakes killed/captured and stranded the Dothraki horde on Dragonstone.
His contempt for his father and greed for Casterly Rock netted him another burned naval fleet, unsullied stranded in an empty castle and the loss of Highgarden.

Although, Casterly Rock being empty of gold is absurd. That plot line is ridiculous, no way all the Lannister's mines are dry, especially for years. That would mean thousands of people no longer working in various occupations, towns becoming ghost towns and no one realizes this? The Army of the North didn't find this out when they captured areas of the Westerlands?

If the mines ran dry 3 years ago, why would Tywin have been covering the crown's debts, loaning money to it? No actions to safeguard what remained of his family's wealth, I mean a mines just don't go empty in a day, production slows down not vanishing in a flash across an entire region. Not to mention that no more working gold mine doesn't mean no money; Tywin just went ahead and spent all their money while knowing little else was coming in?
It was a poorly constructed plot line that should have been left out, it was not needed to show that the Iron Throne's debt is separate from House Lannister's finances. Now the richest family in the kingdoms is really broke.:rolleyes:
 
It's funny how this show has yet to show Davos fight. Not a real knight.

He got blown to shit in the Battle of the Blackwater. He fought in the Battle of the Bastards when they were greatly outnumbered. He was ready to throw down on the NW traitors while again being badly outnumbered.

I turned on close captions on this scene to see how they spelled Davos' pronunciation of knight:

q0LDngY.jpg



Davos is a real curd :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:.

I don't know what's up with close captions on youtube, but it's almost like someone is trolling:

bxXD4Kl.jpg
 
"Up Khaleesi's Dragon Glass".

My vote.
 
Based on my perusal of various arguments, a lot of this boils down to some basic things:

Persons will make excuses to justify the actions of characters they like and root for, while simultaneously denigrating characters they're not fans of, despite actions which they all partake in that can be admonished for the same reasons.

Bias reigns.
 
Euron's gifts to Cersei - was hoping he'd also show up with the long lost Lannister Valyrian sword, Brightroar. Would lend credence to Euron going to Valyria and give him one more thing to taunt Jaimie the one hand about.
 
I think Arya is far from being in the clear here. When you look at the Starks, she has got off easy and that doesn't happen much in the GoT world. You could argue she watched Ned die and that she went blind for a bit, but compared to the others that is easy mode. Honestly, I could see some stupid twist that this isn't really Arya, it's really the Waif. Oh you got some bad ass training from people that can swap faces and kill people on the reg? It would be a good idea to break their rules and run a way, because there won't be any repercussions...I just don't see it.
 
Based on my perusal of various arguments, a lot of this boils down to some basic things:

Persons will make excuses to justify the actions of characters they like and root for, while simultaneously denigrating characters they're not fans of, despite actions which they all partake in that can be admonished for the same reasons.

Bias reigns.
I see Walter. I am a fan of Walter. Therefore, I concur.
 
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