Frustrating teaching experiences

Marfa

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How can you teach someone* who is so unathletic that after 6 months still has problems doing forward rolls?

I have explained repeteadly any single technique we are working on, shown it slowly, then faster, then explain it again, then ask if any had questions, correct it over and over while this person is practicing it, and it still doesn't compute. I'm not asking for perfect technique, God forbids, I just want him to follow simple 1-2-3 steps, not do 2-3-1 then 3-2-1 and any other combination except the 1-2-3 that I've thoroughly explained and show.

He has rolled with us adults since the beginning and everyone has been extra careful not to hurt him and let him work whatever technique he wants, and yet after almost a year he has shown no signs of a fighting attitude. He'll go limp in your guard. He'll go limp when in side control. Take his back? Limp. You open your guard wide as hell and tell him to pass your guard? It will take him 5 full seconds just to start trying, and he knows full well that we are letting him pass. He's lazy and we have to constantly watch him.

He takes every chance he gets to complain about bumping (insert body part) against the floor, or someone's body, to rest mid-roll or avoid rolling for the rest of the class.

I'm not asking for A level athlets. God knows I'm the first under-average athletic guy in the gym. I just want him to show me some grit, or enthusiasm, or the usual "Fuck you, I'm not tapping yet" (whenever you place him in a semblance of submission, like a RNC, he will go limp and then tap even before you are putting any pressure; you can just hug him and immobile he goes again).

So far he has gotten by because the adults treat him extremely well, and the other teens (some bony girls with good technique and wanting to learn, but very little strength or even mass) he can just overpower AND THEN GO LIMP for 5 minutes on side control. Or curl up and do nothing. Or keep them in the guard and do nothing. Or stay in their guard and do nothing.

Now I have some other male teens who are actually athletic and competitive, and another girl who is 80 pounds of dynamite, and he's either getting his ass handed to him or being "hurt" (the usual bruises anyone gets in BJJ) because the new kids are rougher than he's used to.

Do I tell his dad to sign him up for something else? Do I take out the safety floaters and let him sink or swim on his own? I'm worried because he is the type to be targeted by bullies, but he hasn't shown any interest in learning or bettering himself, eventhough we give him every opportunity to do so, and I feel like the class is a safe space where he get an itsy bit of confidence despite everything. And yes, we have pampered him too much. But the other students turned out fine with the same methodology.

Share your frustrating teaching experiences, bros.

*I'm talking about a chubby young teen who is in the adults class because he's too big to be in the kiddies'.
 
One time I was teaching eight year olds to do pullups. None of them could do them at first, so I'd hold them up to the bar and lower them slowly until they got the hang of it.

One kid in particular was extremely bad. He would go limp as soon as I let off my help to lower him. I couldn't figure out what the problem was at first. It took a few classes.

It turned out that he had so little experience moving around that he didn't know how to apply constant pressure. I asked him to pull my hands towards him and he'd alternate between jerking and limping and almost fall over.

I had to literally coach him how to apply constant force by pulling. He didn't understand on his own. Once he understood that, he was able to do the exercise, and a few weeks later, pullups.

Some people are not comfortable struggling. They think that there is an easy way and that if they are struggling, they are doing it wrong. Worse, some people won't struggle because they have no hope and no experience with success through struggling.

I taught a kid recently that was like a noodle hitting pads and doing takedowns. He barely spoke english and the instructor didn't know what to do with him. I figured out he understood what the word strong meant, so I made my own body a noodle, staggered around, and called it weak and bad. Then I took a hard stance and hit my own legs hard. "strong" Then I put him in the position - and I had to do this with lots of kids and adults - ask them to resist me moving them.

I push against his shoulders, straight into him, and try to pull his head down. When he didn't move, I start going harder and harder until I whipping the kid off his feet but he's keeping himself straight.

Then, whenever I saw him fucking up, I'd hit my leg and say "strong" and he'd do the move right.

I taught an ADD kid that was so sensitive (like 12 years old) that he couldn't bite his mouthguard to mold it. He ruining three in a row because he was upset at how hot they were. It was probably abusive, but his dad made him.

He couldn't do pushups or situps. He couldn't roll. He couldn't do shit. I had to have him plank and do knee pushups for weeks or months before he could do a pushup. I had to do all of the above with him. I had to put him in timeout when the mindfog made him useless. I had to let him play games on my computer from time to time to cheer him up. I had to ask him what he wanted the class to do from time to time.

After a year and a half, this kid ended up being the QB for his football team. He could box and wrestle. He could hit 25 pushups and do multiple pullups. He got good.

What all of those kids had in common was their own, internal motivation that came from a supportive home environment and their interest in the activity. If someone doesn't have that, they won't be able to advance from a weak starting position.

Support
Hope
Encouragement
Realistic Goals
Personal 1 on 1 Coaching
Coaching that NEVER underestimates how far down the chain a move has to be broken down, to the point of basic body motion
Simple games to teach struggle
Weak opponents to work against
Stronger opponents to work again

It isn't easy.
 
A high school or college team has tryouts and only takes the most athletic kids. When I was a kid, I was the fat kid. I was one of the slowest runners in my school. I had asthma.

I could still jump rope, ride a bike, do pushups, kick, fight, play sports and contribute to the team and so on. When I played, I played outside. It was a different time. I was weak, but my weakness at that time was stronger than kids today because kids today don't play alone outside. They don't climb alone. They don't fight as much. They sit inside and play Playstation and their bodies don't work.

If you are teaching the most athletic kids for a school, it is a different experience from taking weak people with no athletic experience, but who want to expand their capacity. It is almost like rehabilitation. If someone wants to learn self defense but they can't even fucking hold their arms straight for a pushup, you are wasting their time showing how to sweep from DLR.

They need you to stand there and make them stand on one foot, jump, push against a pad, stretch, how to run, and so on and on.
 
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When I was in the sixth grade, I quit martial arts and didn't pick it back up until for two or three years. I was taking TKD and had to learn the back spinning hook kick to get my next belt.

At class, the dude teaching the class didn't know how to have me use a chair, or hold the chamber, or break the move into parts. He didn't know how to explain the support foot pivot or how to look over the shoulder. He didn't know shit.

All he knew was to stand there and do a fast turning kick in the air, then tell me to do it without other explanation, then be aggravated that I couldn't do it. This goes on all class. That was the last time I went.
 
He is just a kid in an adult class.

Have some patience and relax.
 
He is just a kid in an adult class.

Have some patience and relax.

He's not being held to the adults' standards, and is being taught only fundamentals while the adults work on more advances things. The other kids are already past fundamentals: they're proficient with basic positions, know a submission or two from each position, and already understand the concept of transitioning from position A to position B. Bear in mind I'm talking about teens, the difficult student is already 14 yo, with the rowdy bunch and dynamite girl being between 11 and 12. The eldest is 16. They don't do things perfectly, but they try, and that's what I'm not getting from the difficult student.

Summerstriker's exposition about making his body active has been helpful, but I have already been doing that (although to a lesser extent) and we always go back to the attitude problem: he constantly slacks off and I don't know how to fix this type of problem. He is paired with both weaker and stronger oponents, and he goes limp either out of fear when the opponent is stronger (eventhough he has never been hurt by any of the adults) or just lays on top when the other person is weaker, stalling.

I can't trust him to do what I tell him and I can't teach him one on one all the time. I don't know what to do to fix his attitude, and I fear any measure I take may disencourage him one way or another.
 
But does he like Jiu Jitsu at all? Has he ever at least talked with enthusiasm about it that you know? Chances are it's just not his cup of tea as a whole, maybe his father forced him do it or something?
 
You have heard the saying there are no bad students just bad teachers.

He shows up. He doesn't have to. There is probably a deeper issue and now that you are the teacher it's your opportunity to help him. His issue probably is deeper than jiu jitsu. You have a great chance to truly make a difference in someone's life. Positive or negative. If you are really invested in being a.teacher your impact will also affect you positive or negative.

Good luck
 
The fist issue is the parents and not playing outside among other things, just keep being patient and be a role model it will come
 
Sounds like there could be a nurological disorder at the root of this; DCD/dyspraxia maybe?


"Developmental coordination disorder (DCD), also known as developmental dyspraxia or simply dyspraxia, is a chronic neurological disorder beginning in childhood that can affect planning of movements and co-ordination as a result of brain messages not being accurately transmitted to the body."


 
Sounds like there could be a nurological disorder at the root of this; DCD/dyspraxia maybe?


"Developmental coordination disorder (DCD), also known as developmental dyspraxia or simply dyspraxia, is a chronic neurological disorder beginning in childhood that can affect planning of movements and co-ordination as a result of brain messages not being accurately transmitted to the body."



I had this when I was younger, but fortunately grew out of it. I hope the kid will stay strong; gain confidence and not give up!
 
I had this when I was younger, but fortunately grew out of it. I hope the kid will stay strong; gain confidence and not give up!

Same here... Playing Football (soccer) as child... then weightlifting and kickboxing as a teen helped me grow out of it

They say like 10% of kids in the UK suffer from it... But yet the general public know so little about it
 
Sounds like there could be a nurological disorder at the root of this; DCD/dyspraxia maybe?

Was going to say the same thing myself! The only truly frustrating experience I've ever had teaching involved a quiet kid who would be well behaved but could never quite do even the simplest things. I'd say something like "Step forward with your right foot" and he would step sideways with his left foot. He would go limp a lot while rolling and shrimping - well lets just say he seemed physically incapable.

I started noticing though that I'd give him a basic instruction, and he'd do it wrong, but he always had an odd look on his face when he did it. It got me thinking and I spoke to his mom after practice one day. That's when she told me he has dyspraxia. I just kind of stared in disbelief. All that time wasted. He had been with us for a month at that point. Why wouldn't you say something up front so we could adjust our approach? Parents ...

Anyway, I've found that now, if, for example, we're covering something like side control, I have to physically place him in the correct position. Then I ask him to hold that position as long as he can (it helps if there's a way to create some dynamic tension - not sue why). After doing this a few times he generally is able to do the position correctly. The key is he WANTS to do it, and knows he's not doing right. He just needs a little extra help to get there.

EDIT:
In addition to placing him in the correct position, I also say out loud what I'm doing. "We place our left here, and our right hand here". The second time through he says it out loud with me while I place him in the position. It's made a WORLD of difference.
 
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I'd hate to have my kids train under somebody who considered telling a kid to quit because they are a slow learner and likely have mental or physical issues holding then back.


Instead of finding new ways to help him and taking it as a challenge to improve yourself as a coach you want to blame a kid and ask him to leave??


Seems bjj is for everybody unless they are too difficult to coach.....
 
I'd hate to have my kids train under somebody who considered telling a kid to quit because they are a slow learner and likely have mental or physical issues holding then back.


Instead of finding new ways to help him and taking it as a challenge to improve yourself as a coach you want to blame a kid and ask him to leave??


Seems bjj is for everybody unless they are too difficult to coach.....
LOL
 
I've been in that spot before. Some people
come in and just have the coordination and physical awareness to get it right away and some are beginning a mile back from the starting line when the race starts. But if they are showing up that is the most important thing and since they or their parents are paying I owe them my best effort. I don't try to over teach it, I'll correct them a couple of times, but no more, encourage them, and just try to get some of the simple movements that might make up a technique. If you get to know a little bit about them beyond the mat sometimes that helps make a connection that helps both of you in th process.
 
@SummerStriker that was a great post

My only add is it seems like you are frustrated. Frustration is a really bad place to operate from. Try to remember you are here for him not the other way around. As long as he is not dangerous in class or overly disruptive then even if you make him just a little bit less useless, more social, athletic, even just a little bit, then you will have done something great for this kid.
 
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I'd hate to have my kids train under somebody who considered telling a kid to quit because they are a slow learner and likely have mental or physical issues holding then back.


Instead of finding new ways to help him and taking it as a challenge to improve yourself as a coach you want to blame a kid and ask him to leave??


Seems bjj is for everybody unless they are too difficult to coach.....


Bjj isn't for everybody.
 
I'd hate to have my kids train under somebody who considered telling a kid to quit because they are a slow learner and likely have mental or physical issues holding then back.


Instead of finding new ways to help him and taking it as a challenge to improve yourself as a coach you want to blame a kid and ask him to leave??



Seems bjj is for everybody unless they are too difficult to coach.....

Nah, I'd blame the dumb parents <Moves>
 
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