Frias Zahabi breaking down why banning kicks to the knee is stupid

[BjPenn2017]

12-6 elbows were banned because some idiot from the New Jersey AC had seen brick breaking demonstrations on ESPN and believed that downward elbows would cause a human skull to rupture like a watermelon getting hit with a sledgehammer.

It's probably the silliest part of the unified rules.

I am surprised you even had to mention this Joe usually reminds us every PPV about 5 times so we don't forget

 

[executionermma]

That's not what matters. Every head strike of significance does damage to the brain. No fighter gets knocked out, bambi legged, etc,etc without their being damage to the brain. Is your position that brain damage from strikes A-N is acceptable? While brain damage from strike "P" is not?

Yes.

It's pretty clear as a fan base we accepted brain trauma in combat athletics long ago. Headbutts were banned for the rock, paper, scissors scenario Zahabi described. The guys throwing "Rock" (jitz), didn't want to deal with wrestlers throwing "Paper" (head butts from top control).

I don't think that's the reason.

Now while head trauma is not only accepted but encouraged. Some steps have been taken to help increase fighter longevity. Banning small joint manipulation, biting, eye gouging, fish hooking, spinal protection. Those things make sense.
Banning the knee kick does seem to stick to the basic principle behind banning those other techniques. They all are difficult to defend, and have potential to cause career changing injury.

This is a different debate. A question was made: "how headbutts are worse than knee kicks?" to which i said and i'll repeat: they cause brain damage.

Now i'll address the debate: i'm against headbutts and isn't because wrestlers would use that to counter BJJ players, it's because
1) To me isn't pleasing as a fan (imo) to watch it, actually it makes me want to stop supporting the sport, just as soccer kicks and stomps.
2) It's much easier to hit someone with headbutts than a high kick or something, it's a pathetic and "overpower" technique because it's very useful and easily applicable to inflict damage, but you are also damaging yourself. There is a "sport" where headbutts are allowed and it's very fucked up, fighters's careers don't last long. They are all concussed fast.
3) There isn't any defense to headbutts, to defend yourself against knee kicks you just have to adopt a more straight stance and/or counter it every time someone try that, by removing your leg and/or engaging shorting the distance.

 

[Joshuaace]

Now i'll address the debate: i'm against headbutts and isn't because wrestlers would use that to counter BJJ players, it's because
1) To me isn't pleasing as a fan (imo) to watch it, actually it makes me want to stop supporting the sport, just as soccer kicks and stomps.
3) There isn't any defense to headbutts, .

"I don't find rock aesthetically pleasing. Rock is seemingly indefensible. Ban Rock."

But that's not true at all. Just as you can say "change your stance" to avoid the kick. There is a defense to head butts; Don't get dominated on the ground.

 

[executionermma]

"I don't find rock aesthetically pleasing. Rock is seemingly indefensible. Ban Rock."

But that's not true at all. Just as you can say "change your stance" to avoid the kick. There is a defense to head butts; Don't get dominated on the ground.

Ground? lol
Why wouldn't headbutts be used on the feet too?

 

[Joshuaace]

Ground? lol
Why wouldn't headbutts be used on the feet too?

I didn't say they shouldn't be used standing. But standing head butts were not the reason head butts were banned. Coleman's head butts on the ground were the primary reason they were banned.

 

[executionermma]

I didn't say they shouldn't be used standing. But standing head butts were not the reason head butts were banned. Coleman's head butts on the ground were the primary reason they were banned.

Ok but if you make them legal people will use it standing.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

has firas ever even had an mma fight? who gives a fuck about his opinion

He's won titles in Muay Thai, freestyle wrestling and submission wrestling. Very few top trainers have pro MMA fights under their belt. Most have experience in striking or grappling competition or both. Remember this is a relatively new sport. As the sport ages, you'll see more former fighters as trainers. Guys like Firas are respected by their fighters for a reason.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Imo fighters who use moves considered as “breakers” (those that are high percentage and most probable to break a limb/dislocate something while striking - like for example the knee kick and that grimy move that Jones did on Glover that ended up dislocating his shoulder I believe). Those not only have bad intentions of ruining someone’s career, they are also unethical in combat sports across the board. Why should they be permitted in mma ?


Anyways who cares , not that invested in arguing over this

Uh, what? Jones did a Mir lock, except he did it standing instead of on the ground. Mir probably taught him that himself back when they were training partners. Funny how Mir gets universal praise and highlight reels for that move, but Jones gets hate for the same thing.

 

[Joshuaace]

Ok but if you make them legal people will use it standing.

I'm perfectly fine with that. I've never seen a head butt crush someones skull in mma, I have seen a knee do it though.

I'm certain across all genres of sports, there have likely been athletic careers disrupted or ended by head butts. I can't name any off the top of my head, but I'm relatively certain.

Knee injuries that have altered or ended careers? I can't even begin to count them.

 

[tramendous]

We should allow strikes to the groin. Its not fair for traditional martial arts that specialize in that. Rock paper scissors n sheeit

 

[SalvadorAllende]

No.. they should ban Wonderbitch fighting style. I hope someone breaks his knee and he cant do that anymore.

 

[2004 account]

Uh, what? Jones did a Mir lock, except he did it standing instead of on the ground. Mir probably taught him that himself back when they were training partners. Funny how Mir gets universal praise and highlight reels for that move, but Jones gets hate for the same thing.

Didn’t jones himself say it was a Gracie move he copied from somewhere?

 

[Troy Nelson]

I've got to say I'm surprised how many people don't see a problem with the technique. I'm usually pretty open minded, but I'm drawing a blank on this. It is objectively a dirty technique. It requires zero skill, can be spammed with nigh impunity, and aims to injure someone in one of the worst ways possible. The closest comparisons I can think of are intentional groin shots and eye pokes.

I think the fact Whitaker came out spamming them against Yoel for revenge speaks volumes. In any reasonable world, these are banned within the year.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

People need to learn to defend it, period. Don't stand heavy on your lead leg, for starters.

 

[Kneeuinthenutz]

It actually bothers me he had to take time to explain this.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

It actually bothers me he had to take time to explain this.

Its sad that people act like its some cheat code that can't be countered. Different stances for different opponents. If you have someone throwing those kicks at your knee and you still stand heavy on your lead leg you deserve to have it chopped down. Its a fight, adjust and protect yourself, don't cry for a rule to do it.

 

[Quebec Nick]

I see Firas' point, about forcing the other guy to have a more square stance, but I think there's a difference between hitting to create a bruise and trying to disclocate a knee with a blow.

 

[Sakuraba7]

I would much rather have 12-6 elbows and ground kicks and stomps than standing kicks to a knee joint.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Didn’t jones himself say it was a Gracie move he copied from somewhere?

I didn't see that. But it could be. Obviously Mir didn't invent jiu jitsu, he's just good at it. I assumed Jones got it from Mir because they were training partners and Mir popularized that move. But even though certain moves are named after fighters or grapplers, in all actuality almost all of these moves go back to the days of not only early Brazilian jiu jitsu, but to ancient Japanese Judo.

 

[IReallyDoTrainUFC]

We should allow strikes to the groin. Its not fair for traditional martial arts that specialize in that. Rock paper scissors n sheeit

I have trained my groin to accept the harshest punishment.