French economist (Piketty) predicts end of 2 party system

VivaRevolution

Banned
Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
34,002
Reaction score
0
Is the Two-Party System Doomed?

A new study shows us what observation should already have made clear: a messy restructuring of America's political parties is coming

clinton-trump-2-party-system-7eb19101-813e-408a-b0bd-302922045fc8.jpg

A supporter of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and a Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump supporter hold signs as they attend a Memorial Day parade, in Chappaqua, N.Y. Mel Evans/AP/REX Shutterstock
Matt Taibbi
March 30, 2018

Thomas Piketty, the French economist whose 2013 bestseller Capital in the 21st Centuryawoke upscale Americans to the shocking news that their economic system was not working for everyone, has written a new paper exposing more uncomfortable truths.

Piketty's new essay, called Brahmin Left vs. Merchant Right, studied electoral trends in three Western countries – France, Britain and the U.S. – dating back to the 1940s.

Even though the three countries have different systems, all three feature electoral showdowns for executive power that broadly come down to "left" versus "right" factions.

A remarkable feature is how mathematically balanced these elections have been over the years. Piketty notes that even in France, whose final votes involve coalitions of multiple minority parties, the widest disparity observed in recent history involved splits of ten points (De Gaulle vs. Mitterand in 1965) and eight (Mitterand vs. Chirac in 1988). More often, he notes, the splits have been 51-49, 52-48, etc.

This mimics the remarkable closeness of American elections. Four times in recent history, we've had presidential elections end either in nearly perfect statistical ties (Kennedy-Nixon in 1960, Nixon-Humphrey in 1968) or in contests close enough where there was a disparity between electoral and popular votes (Bush-Gore 2000, and Clinton-Trump 2016).

As Noam Chomsky wrote after the Bush/Gore fiasco, about the only scenario where you'd expect to see a contest of a hundred-plus million voters end in a statistical tie would either be a completely random process, or one where voters were asked to make a choice about something totally unrelated to their lives, like the presidency of Mars.

That we've had the flipped coin land virtually on its side so many times has always suggested something was off about our political system. Piketty now hints at what that was.

He writes that across all three countries, we've seen the evolution of the same trend. Fifty or sixty years ago, voting with the "left-wing" side (which he terms the socialist/labour/democratic parties) tended to be associated with low income and low education. Conversely, high education and high-income voters in all three countries voted right.

Over the years, however, the "left-wing" has become more and more associated with higher-education voters, giving rise to what he calls a "multiple-elite" party system.

According to Piketty, in 2016, for the first time – and of course some of this has to do with the unique repugnance of Donald Trump – the upper 10% of voters, sorted by income, voted Democratic.

Piketty just puts numbers behind an observation that anyone covering recent American presidential elections could have made: That huge pluralities of voters on both sides of the aisle feel unrepresented and even insulted, and increasingly see both major parties as tools of the very rich.

His belief is that a major reordering of the political landscape is coming. It will be based less on traditional notions of right and left, and more along the lines of what he describes as "globalists (high-education, high-income) vs. nativists (low- education, low-income)."

We've known for a while that America's current party Nearly seven years ago, I was sent to cover two different stories within the space of a few days that illustrated this. The first was a recap of the Occupy Wall Street protests at Zucotti Park. The second was a trip down to Jacksonville, Florida for a tour of "rocket docket" foreclosure courts that had been set up to expedite the process of tossing poor people out of their homes.

The Occupy protests accomplished one extremely important thing. They popularized the terms "The 1%" and "the 99%."owns more wealth than the bottom 90%.

The protesters' demographic critique implied that whatever we've been voting about, it hasn't had a lot to do with economics. It also seemed to mean that the wealthy have somehow been seriously over-represented at the polls for ages.

The people at Zucotti were mainly what you might describe today as Sanders Democrats. They tended to be socially liberal, educated, and full of feelings of being left out.

An example was an organic farmer from Vermont who talked with disdain about the money the Democrats took from big agribusiness corporations who were his competition. This theme, that big money owned both parties, was prevalent at the demonstration.

In Jacksonville, people were being thrown out of their homes by a hi-speed foreclosure court that shamefully swallowed without protest the robo-signed or phony documentation offered by banks and lenders. The victims in these courtrooms were not, by and large, the same people as the kind you'd find at an Occupy Protest.

They were overwhelmingly either the ethnic poor – predatory mortgage lending disproportionately targeted people of color – or what pundits today would derisively call the "white working class." Both of those groups were there together, however, victimized by the same malefactors.

The pure rage and sense of abandonment in those courts was striking. This group of people experiencing a system stacked against them was not interested in elaborate explanations of how the foreclosure crisis evolved. Most were focused on questions like, "Where are my kids going to sleep tonight?"

If I'd even tried to bring up, say, a foreign policy question in that room – So, now that you have no house, what do you think about the future of the EuroZone? – I might have had my teeth knocked out.

It was clear that if all of these groups ever started to align with each other – the Occupy types and, say, the victims of the foreclosure crisis – you'd have revolution, and probably a pretty quick one, given the numbers involved.

Fast-forward four years, to the beginning of the 2015-2016 presidential election campaign. All of the trends described by Occupy had worsenedsignificantly.

Income disparity was worse. The gap in criminal justice outcomes was worse (especially after the 2008 crash criminals were let off wholesale). Indebtedness was worse. Even political influence was now significantly more imbalanced, after the Citizens United decision. People everywhere, even on the right, were angrier about all of it.

A few establishment voices, like Jimmy Carter, eventually pointed to these factors when asked to explain the rise of Trump. But most pundits dismissed the discontent over these things as mere low-information stupidity, which played right into Trump's hands.

Candidate Trump's solutions were all lies. But his stump presentation hammered home an unfortunately true observation that politicians in both parties had incentives not to care about them, because they were sponsored by the same mega-donors.

From pollsters to think-tank analysts to pundits, the Beltway pros have not only consistently underestimated these feelings of disenfranchisement; they've consistently over-counted their own numbers.

This week, for instance, the New York Times ran a piece pointing to new evidence that pollsters in 2016 made massive errors. Some exit polls in November of 2016 had the number of college graduates of all races representing more than 50% of voters. But a recent Pew study says the number was closer to 37%.

America, like pretty much everyplace else in the neoliberal world, is becoming a society split up into unequal camps. We have an extremely small group of very rich people, and a much larger group of everyone else, who may or may not be educated, but increasingly have either zero net worth, or close to it.

The numbers are getting harder to ignore.

American politicians for decades have done an outstanding job of keeping low-income voters from seeing their shared economic dilemmas. The Republicans dating back to Goldwater and Nixon have kept voters transfixed with race hatred and fears about things like gun control, while Democrats have emphasized the Republican threat on social issues like reproductive rights and Social Security.

But having two parties sponsored by the same donors simply can't work in the long-term. The situation ends up being what a Colombian politician once deemed "two horses with the same owner."

From Mitt Romney's idiotic tirade against "the 47%" to Hillary Clinton's recent remarks about how she won all the "dynamic" parts of America, our political leaders have consistently showed that they don't see or understand the levels of resentment out there.

Papers like Piketty's are a warning that if the intellectuals in both parties don't come up with a real plan for dealing with the income disparity problem before someone smarter than Donald Trump takes it on, they're screwed. Forget nativists vs. globalists. Think poor vs. rich. Think 99 to 1. While Washington waits with bated breath for the results of the Mueller probe, it's the other mystery – how do we fix this seemingly unfixable economic system – that is keeping the rest of the country awake at night.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/taibbi-piketty-study-is-two-party-system-doomed-w518585

____________________________________________________


It is amazing to me. It's as if there is two America's. The one the pundits, politicians, intellectual and economic elites describe, and the reality the rest of us know we live in.

It is coming time to pay the piper. This is where the rubber meets the road. Shit is about to hit the fan.

Pick your idiom, but Trump is just the beginning.

A seismic shift in the political landscape has begun, and it is not done reshaping the face of the earth.

Discuss.....
 
I keep reading change is a coming and yet it still keeps looking like the rulers of this land are still playing the games they always play. Or at least they still keep winning

Well see I guess

Also title is misleading this is mostly about what Matt Taibbi has to say on the subject
 
Rules have to change for the lesser parties to get either federal funding or into debates to really do away with the two party system
 
"our political leaders have consistently showed that they don't see or understand the levels of resentment out there."

Trump did.
 
The ones that are sane are in the middle and would probably prefer to vote independent

But, for whatever reason ppl vote for who they tell you to vote for....both the left and right love war so as long as either one gets in office, Israel is happy.
 
I keep reading change is a coming and yet it still keeps looking like the rulers of this land are still playing the games they always play. Or at least they still keep winning

Well see I guess

Also title is misleading this is mostly about what Matt Taibbi has to say on the subject

Fair enough.

Brahmin Left vs Merchant Right:
Rising Inequality and the Changing Structure of Political Conflict
(Evidence from France, Britain and the US, 1948-2017)
Thomas Piketty
EHESS and Paris School of Economics
First version: January 26th 2018
This version: March 22nd 2018
Abstract. Using post-electoral surveys from France, Britain and the US, this paper
documents a striking long-run evolution in the structure of political cleavages. In the
1950s-1960s, the vote for left-wing (socialist-labour-democratic) parties was
associated with lower education and lower income voters. It has gradually become
associated with higher education voters, giving rise to a “multiple-elite” party system
in the 2000s-2010s: high-education elites now vote for the “left”, while high-
income/high-wealth elites still vote for the “right” (though less and less so). I argue
that this can contribute to explain rising inequality and the lack of democratic
response to it, as well as the rise of “populism”. I also discuss the origins of this
evolution (rise of globalization/migration cleavage, and/or educational expansion per
se) as well as future prospects: “multiple-elite” stabilization; complete realignment of
the party system along a “globalists” (high-education, high-income) vs “nativists” (low-
education, low-income) cleavage; return to class-based redistributive conflict (either
from an internationalist or nativist perspective). Two main lessons emerge. First, with
multi-dimensional inequality, multiple political equilibria and bifurcations can occur.
Next, without a strong egalitarian-internationalist platform, it is difficult to unite low-
education, low-income voters from all origins within the same party.
* I am grateful to various data centers for providing access to post-electoral surveys,
and in particular to CDSP/ADISP (France), NES (Britain), and ANES, ICPSR and
Roper Center (USA). This research is supplemented by a data appendix available
online at piketty.pse.ens.fr/conflict.

describes
 
It's an interesting read. I have a collection of unorganized thoughts.

Probably the biggest shift might be in the Democrats who have slowly embraced the same donors and lobbying groups that have back the GOP for years.

There is a major rewrite happening but I don't think it's as severe as the article suggests. I'll change my tune if we ever see a resurgence in unions but that seems extremely unlikely. Or if we ever see labor solidarity in the college educated crowd but that seems even more unlikely.

No one cares about local politics and without that the 99% can't shape the country. Locally is where they have the power to directly influence politics because they can demonstrate their issues to their elected officials in person.

The amount of money needed to run an election simply makes it impossible that the low income, low educated part of the population can be major influencers without the local element.
 
It's an interesting read. I have a collection of unorganized thoughts.

Probably the biggest shift might be in the Democrats who have slowly embraced the same donors and lobbying groups that have back the GOP for years.

There is a major rewrite happening but I don't think it's as severe as the article suggests. I'll change my tune if we ever see a resurgence in unions but that seems extremely unlikely. Or if we ever see labor solidarity in the college educated crowd but that seems even more unlikely.

No one cares about local politics and without that the 99% can't shape the country. Locally is where they have the power to directly influence politics because they can demonstrate their issues to their elected officials in person.

The amount of money needed to run an election simply makes it impossible that the low income, low educated part of the population can be major influencers without the local element.

Agreed, organizing is local, unless done electronically, and I haven't been shown that this is really viable beyond Bernie's small donor funded campaign, and he still had advantages of traditional media exposure given to a Senator that enabled this.
 
Agreed, organizing is local, unless done electronically, and I haven't been shown that this is really viable beyond Bernie's small donor funded campaign, and he still had advantages of traditional media exposure given to a Senator that enabled this.

True but the American populace is far too fixated on national issues that are really minimally impactful on their daily lives. I've always believed that the problem at the national level is directly tied to the malaise at the local level.

My own limited experience says that your local politicians are being selected based on their future national appeal. With the end result that no one is really interested in promoting the state vs. the fed (the only real modern examples are places like CA where they seem to really enjoy placing the state at odds with the fed).
 
I love him, but he's wrong.

Our economic power is going to keep this turd of a political system floating for much, much longer. It's clunky, it's inefficient, it's unrepresentative, it's outdated in its subscription to federalism, and it's painful, but it's ours.
 
True but the American populace is far too fixated on national issues that are really minimally impactful on their daily lives. I've always believed that the problem at the national level is directly tied to the malaise at the local level.

My own limited experience says that your local politicians are being selected based on their future national appeal. With the end result that no one is really interested in promoting the state vs. the fed (the only real modern examples are places like CA where they seem to really enjoy placing the state at odds with the fed).


Yeah, while I think the local level is important, the scope of these problems kind of demands the federal government to effect real change.

Where I definitely agree with you though, is in the idea that 90 million voting Americans aren't just going to magically create a new political party. It has to start somewhere, and the fact that local politics do matter, especially in education, it would be an empowering step that actually improves things.
 
In addition to it describing potential changes in the character of the two major parties rather than an end to a two-party system (which would essentially require a new constitution), this is really dumb. Is the suggestion that poor white Southerners and poor minorities are going to be on the same side, electorally? That educated, high-earning urban types are going to align with capital over labor?

There are different factions within the major parties now, there have been in the past, and there will be in the future.
 
Rules have to change for the lesser parties to get either federal funding or into debates to really do away with the two party system
Screw the funding it's always been crazy to me that they can't even make it into the debates. I'd bring it up during school as a kid and it was always "next question." It's like how does everyone else not see what's going on here?

<{vega}>
 
Yeah, while I think the local level is important, the scope of these problems kind of demands the federal government to effect real change.

Where I definitely agree with you though, is in the idea that 90 million voting Americans aren't just going to magically create a new political party. It has to start somewhere, and the fact that local politics do matter, especially in education, it would be an empowering step that actually improves things.

In this country, you don't need the federal government to create real change. That is the benefit of our model. That benefit is only useful to the extent that it's put in practice.

Worker protections can be implemented at the state level. The same way some states have legalized marijuana or created new protected classes.

I think we've allowed the tax tail to wag the policy dog. Lower taxes and small government have become ends unto themselves. The local populace has subjugated their local needs - proper funding of their schools, general municipal services - to the national conversation about federal taxes. A large part of this arises from the national demonizing of the poor as abusers of local welfare.

Most of what I'm typing doesn't seem to follow in a straight line but I think it's because it's such large topic that it's impossible to lay out in a straight line.
 
don't think it will matter unless they ALSO undergo heavy campaign finance reform

Who's the most successful third party candidate here ever? Perot, right? and then like Eugene V Debs or some ish? (unless Bernie counts, he likely could've gotten much higher share of popular vote but he technically wasn't the candidate)

That only worked for Perot b/c he was mad rich though
 
don't think it will matter unless they ALSO undergo heavy campaign finance reform

Who's the most successful third party candidate here ever? Perot, right? and then like Eugene V Debs or some ish? (unless Bernie counts, he likely could've gotten much higher share of popular vote but he technically wasn't the candidate)

That only worked for Perot b/c he was mad rich though

I read this and immediately thought about Perot as well. If I recall correctly, Perot was threatened by the CIA at the height of his campaign. The two-party system is strongly juiced in with a completely invisible system supporting and using it.
 
I read this and immediately thought about Perot as well. If I recall correctly, Perot was threatened by the CIA at the height of his campaign. The two-party system is strongly juiced in with a completely invisible system supporting and using it.
Even before Citizens United, there were still significant entry barriers to running for any serious race due to the campaign financing, but now it's just absurd

If you aren't at least somewhat independently wealthy or have some rich backer (even Jesse Ventura was somewhat wealthy from wrestling/acting before Gov of MN) than how do you even get your name thrown in the ring?

Until they are taking serious as candidates (third parties), then Corporations won't be contributing towards them in any significant level, which all but kills any shot they have.

Like if the Nazi's had to deal w/ this level of campaign financing in the Reichstag they would have never slowly risen to power through gaining seats every election, which is the only 'good' argument I can think of defending the current system (inherent built in defense against extreme idealogical movements from right or left), but at the same pt it also stifles any views that aren't corporate backed (i.e. grass roots movements)
 
We need the Alt-Center.............which is basically not believing the mainstream narrative, but you also don't believe the fear mongering of both the left and right.


I already made a thread about this and set out the guidelines on how this can be done.


Republicans/Democrats have alienated a big chunk of voters who are too apathetic to vote...They simply don't give a shit because they are tired of the pussy fear mongering, tribal politics, they are tired of mainstream news!...An Alt-Center party will rejuvenate their interest for politics....and apathetic voters are a big fucking chunk that is untapped by both the republicans/democrats.


We also have moderates who are both republicans/democrats, who feel alienated by the extreme right wingers/left wingers always crying and focusing on real non-issues, like guns/immigration/terrorism/etc....The Alt-Center will look like a way better party for their issues.


Give the people a center party that actually doesn't put fear in people's hearts but comes up with solutions...that doesn't alienate people but unites them.....that goes against the real problem in the USA, like poverty, crap education, and corporate welfare....and I guarantee, the voters will vote for them if given the option.


The Republicans look like fucking idiots right now because of trump, they were suppose to be the "moral" party, that shit is out the window now....the Democrats look like SJW/elitist which moderates hate.

Both parties a perceived to have sold out, to be Corporate whores by giving up to lobbyist...the Alt-Center can capitalize on this


This is the perfect time for a moderate party! For the Alt-Center!!!!!!


Anybody want to start this party with me?
 
Last edited:
That's partly the problem
Neoliberals and Neoconservatives are both already kinda the 'alt center' in that they attempt moderate policies, that just happen to certainly benefit their corporate backers more than the constituency. Fools enough people into thinking things are done for them, and also manages to shut down the legit centrist views or Libertarians that appear as 'cooky extremists' or something in comparison

But then if you have the parties shift more towards their 'traditional' leanings, it becomes much harder to compromise on issues and pass bills.

If we had a multiparty system like most of Europe does, we likely wouldn't have this issue, or we still would and there would just be offshoots of the main two groups splintering overall support and muddying it worse.

We have to get money out of this shit man
 
Back
Top