Once A Pioneer Of The Free Speech Movement, UC Berkeley Is Now Giving In To Violent Rioters.

[spamking]

If people arm themselves expecting a confrontation, and then go anyway, and confront, then kill- they're going to be charged and they're going to deserve it.

If people arm themselves based on the outcomes of the previous "protests" and then go anyway . . . then kill in defense of themselves they shouldn't be charged with jack.

Again, I never said show up armed and go on the offensive. If someone doesn't want to go because they're fearful of what might happen they should have the ability to still go and be able to defend themselves if needed.

 

[Fawlty]

If people arm themselves based on the outcomes of the previous "protests" and then go anyway . . . then kill in defense of themselves they shouldn't be charged with jack.

Again, I never said show up armed and go on the offensive. If someone doesn't want to go because they're fearful of what might happen they should have the ability to still go and be able to defend themselves if needed.

I get your POV and I'm not interested in defending Berkeley protesters, but arming yourself and going to a confrontation expecting violence shows intent.

 

[IDL]

I get your POV and I'm not interested in defending Berkeley protesters, but arming yourself and going to a confrontation expecting violence shows intent.

Intent to defend against the reoccurring attacks? On it's own I'm not sure what else it shows, although I have no doubt there are some testosterone filled males who would be in there hoping for the opportunity to act tough.

 

[spamking]

I get your POV and I'm not interested in defending Berkeley protesters, but arming yourself and going to a confrontation expecting violence shows intent.

If you got my POV you wouldn't have stated someone showing up armed to protect themselves at an event that has the potential to be violent as intentions of being violent themselves.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Charles Murray had his talk shut down by mob violence just a month or so back. He's provocative but no provocateur. It's not too strong at all to say college campuses in the US have gone from among the freest to among the least free venues in terms of expression and speech.

Agreed with him not being a provocateur like Milo and Coulter, but The Bell Curve is certainly a powder keg, even more so now than it was when it was published. The provocateurs (on both sides, but especially with Trump as POTUS after his campaign) have ramped up tensions to the point that someone like Murray can't speak, and have his proactive ideas and his application of research methods challenged during the Q&A sessions at the end of his speech, which is how something like the Bell Curve needs to be addressed at a college by people who are capable of getting down to the nuts of bolts of the thing.

I don't think colleges and universities can be independent of the larger culture where general people with opposing viewpoints have a very difficult time having debates with the size of the chips on their shoulders from the accumulation of listening to elected officials bicker, media people bicker, random social media people bicker, and with the provocateurs who have flourished in this environment constantly throwing gas on the fire and keeping the whole cycle spinning faster and faster, not to mention the international trolls who are doing it on purpose and watching with glee as Americans become less capable of rational debate and compromise, which our system of government is based upon. It's ugly out there, and unfortunately the loudest and ugliest on both sides seem to be taken as speaking for their side, further throwing fire on the cycle.

As for Berkeley, you can't blame the cops for asking the school to shut down Coulter, given what has happened over the past couple of months and the potential for escalating violence by people who are not even Cal students or faculty. Let the psychos from both sides meet at Manassas/Bull Run with bayonets fixed, as that is what those folks are heading toward.

 

[steelcity77]

so coulter said she's doing it anyways ? is this still on .. I would think she's putting herself in danger if she's just winging this on her own with a bunch of rioters running around

 

[Lord of Lies]

Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, Larry the Cable Guy, etc.

What comedians are doing this?

 

[ultramanhyata]

Coulter is just too cowardly to admit she likes black dick because she knows she'll lose a large percentage of her alt-right audience.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, Larry the Cable Guy, etc.

Strange, you would think Seinfeld wouldn't miss an opportunity to be around teenage girls.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

so coulter said she's doing it anyways ? is this still on .. I would think she's putting herself in danger if she's just winging this on her own with a bunch of rioters running around

She will not put herself in danger, she just sees an opportunity to express outrage to be a martyr, there is a lot of money in that in book sales and speaking deals.

 

[Arkain2K]

As for Berkeley, you can't blame the cops for asking the school to shut down Coulter, given what has happened over the past couple of months and the potential for escalating violence by people who are not even Cal students or faculty.

Nobody here "blame the cops for asking the school to shut down Coulter", mainly because, well, the cops never did such thing. You are the first one to spread that hypothesis, so I expect you to provide the links to back up that claim.

As for the school, they have now sent out an official letter saying that the reason for the cancellation is they couldn't find a "safe venue" for her speech, and couldn't "guarantee her safety" on campus with all the death threats and planned riots, presumably by the progressive & tollerant groups.

This letter of capitulation did NOT say anything about the cops from the Berkeley Police Department (or any other kinds of government authorities for that matter) "asked them to shut Coulter down" like you claims.

 

[lilelvis]

To be fair Ann Couter hasn't said anything of value in her entire life

Best researched and sourced author out there. You should read at least a chapter of one of her twelve (12) NYT best sellers before you say something so uninformed.

 

[helltoupee]

If you honestly couldn't absorb that basic information in the OP like everyone else in this discussion, I'm afraid you have a serious reading-comprehension impairment.

Either that, or you're the retarded demographic mentioned in my sig who have no business joining in a discussion that he chose to be completely ignorant about.

So, which is it?

How about you read my reply based on the context of the post I was responding to, and, following that, re-read the bolded qoute above, but this time listen real closely for the irony.

 

[EmpireShallFall]

She's only doing this to stir shit up.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I don't think colleges and universities can be independent of the larger culture

I think they are very much independent of the larger culture and do not look much like most of America at all. It's hard to find more of a hotbed for radicalism than a college campus. They certainly affect American culture, but they are set up to be impervious to American culture. very mainstream things, like say, voting for Donald Trump, are seen as aggressive acts that need to be addressed or as reasons for violence (as in the Milo riot, where people wearing MAGA hats were assaulted).

As for Berkeley, you can't blame the cops for asking the school to shut down Coulter, given what has happened over the past couple of months and the potential for escalating violence by people who are not even Cal students or faculty.

Yes, you absolutely can hold the police responsible for not protecting the civil rights of Americans. This is particularly true when Berkeley police have tolerated progressive violence for many years and helped create the hostile environment.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Nobody here "blame the cops for asking the school to shut down Coulter", mainly because, well, the cops never did such thing. You are the first one to spread that hypothesis, so I expect you to provide the links to back up that claim.

As for the school, they have now sent out an official letter saying that the reason for the cancellation is they couldn't find a "safe venue" for her speech, and couldn't "guarantee her safety" on campus with all the death threats and planned riots, presumably by the progressive & tollerant groups.

This letter of capitulation did NOT say anything about the cops from the Berkeley Police Department (or any other kinds of government authorities for that matter) "asked them to shut Coulter down" like you claims.

This is from Cal's official statement, that the cops thought it was too dangerous to hold the speech on campus next week, because they know that both sides would be coming to the speech with a taste for blood. Cal tried to accommodate it by making it only for students, during the day, and waiting until late notice to specify the location, but the cops still thought it was too dangerous. If you were a cop, what would you suggest, to hold the speech and put college students (most who don't give much of a shit and only want to get their degrees) and your officers in the line of fire between wackos in the fourth battle of Berkeley in the past 3 couple of months? Things are crazy right now, you can be quixotic or you can be practical and recognize that people are going to get hurt and property is going to be damaged over some stupid shit.

"Unfortunately, UCPD determined that, given currently active security threats, it is not possible to assure that the event could be held successfully -- or that the safety of Ms. Coulter, the event sponsors, audience, and bystanders could be adequately protected -- at any of the campus venues available on April 27th," the letter said.
"We realize that this is disappointing news, but the good news is that UCPD and Student Affairs remain firmly committed to working with you to find an alternative time and date for Ms. Coulter to come speak here at Berkeley. We expect most Mondays and Tuesdays in September during the day should work, though we will of course need to work through the details."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/19/us/ann-coulter-uc-berkeley/index.html

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

This is from Cal's official statement, that the cops thought it was too dangerous to hold the speech on campus next week, because they know that both sides would be coming to the speech with a taste for blood. Cal tried to accommodate it by making it only for students, during the day, and waiting until late notice to specify the location, but the cops still thought it was too dangerous. If you were a cop, what would you suggest, to hold the speech and put college students (most who don't give much of a shit and only want to get their degrees) and your officers in the line of fire between wackos in the fourth battle of Berkeley in the past 3 couple of months? Things are crazy right now, you can be quixotic or you can be practical and recognize that people are going to get hurt and property is going to be damaged over some stupid shit.

"Unfortunately, UCPD determined that, given currently active security threats, it is not possible to assure that the event could be held successfully -- or that the safety of Ms. Coulter, the event sponsors, audience, and bystanders could be adequately protected -- at any of the campus venues available on April 27th," the letter said.
"We realize that this is disappointing news, but the good news is that UCPD and Student Affairs remain firmly committed to working with you to find an alternative time and date for Ms. Coulter to come speak here at Berkeley. We expect most Mondays and Tuesdays in September during the day should work, though we will of course need to work through the details."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/19/us/ann-coulter-uc-berkeley/index.html

My question was How did you leaped from the campus police acknowledging that they could not adequately "assure Ms. Coulter's safety" to "the cops ASKED UC-Berkeley to shut Coulter down"...?

And yes, those are two wildly different narratives, with wildly different implications. I'm sure you must have realized that by now.

 

[Gandhi]

How about this: update the campus rule to add automatic expulsion for any student who riots and destroy school property simply because they don't like something somebody else says.

Came here to say this.

Its simple you take photo and video surveillance and expel every last student involved in a riot.

Zero exceptions.

Liberalism on campus is a joke until this happens.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

I think they are very much independent of the larger culture and do not look much like most of America at all. It's hard to find more of a hotbed for radicalism than a college campus. They certainly affect American culture, but they are set up to be impervious to American culture. very mainstream things, like say, voting for Donald Trump, are seen as aggressive acts that need to be addressed or as reasons for violence (as in the Milo riot, where people wearing MAGA hats were assaulted).



Yes, you absolutely can hold the police responsible for not protecting the civil rights of Americans. This is particularly true when Berkeley police have tolerated progressive violence for many years and helped create the hostile environment.

When have you seen this type of violence in Berkeley since the Hell's Angels busting through the police lines to stomp Vietnam War protestors? The police are saying it's not safe, which is why it is different than when it was just a free speech issue, without the threat of brawls and property destruction, like when there was an outcry against Bill Maher speaking there because of his controversial statements about Muslims. Also, it's California, and voting for Trump is seen as an aggressive act to a lot of people of Mexican descent. His campaign had that narrative from the start with his first speech. You put that in context of Milo speaking (who is a terrible person who says terrible things about everything, which is why he eventually was fired at Breitbart) and you get a very volatile situation.
If Trump or Jerry Brown want to call in the National Guard to protect Ann's first amendment rights, that is one thing, but the UCPD is saying they don't think it is safe, and it's unfair to paint that as a political thing (especially when you have extremist movements on both sides shooting cops).

As for colleges and universities being "hotbeds for radicalism," I went to college and graduate school at two large universities, and I didn't experience that. Sure there were some people like that (never had one in a class), but their were also lots of other people, and the mainstream was going to college football games, basketball games, wrestling meets (in Iowa), and were drinking and dating and working at sandwich shops and just being normal kids focused on their futures. I got into it with a militant and doctrinaire multicultural psychology professor I had for a semester in graduate school, but I didn't call Tucker Carlson and bitch about it. I just pumped my nuts up, did the work to a T, and defended my arguments with supporting literature in my papers.