Frank Mir says Fedor never lost his ability, the game just caught up to him as the sport evolved.

[jaredmc16]

For one thing, TDD is soooo much better today. I was just pointing out to a friend that we rarely see great slams anymore because of the quality of TDD.

Not that there aren’t takedowns anymore, but they one doing the takedown usually has to work hard for it. I have a hard time picturing Fedor land his trips the way he use to so fluidly.

And did you not just see the last hw championship fight?

 

[JosephTessaro]

So basically Mir is saying Fedor is going to smash him?

 

[laleggenda27]

Mir's out of his mind. Fedor has been declining physically for almost a decade. By the time he fought Rogers in 2009, he was noticeably slowing down, which is completely normal for an athlete of his age. When he fought Rogers, Fedor was 33 and had more than 30 pro fights.

Some people don't understand the fact that by the time a man reaches his 30s, his athleticism is already declining. Time is especially unkind to a fighter like Fedor, who's success was dependent on agility, explosion, and reflexes. Those are the first physical traits to fall off. Whereas fighters who rely on power are able to extend their careers because time is more kind to raw power. There's a reason why Muhammad Ali was completely shot in his mid-30s, while Foreman remained relevant in his late 40s.

And let's not forget that Fedor was a tiny HW. So not only are his biggest physical gifts in decline, but he's also fighting bigger guys. Fast forward 9 years and Fedor is an empty shell of the athlete he once was.

 

[newcastleman]

Frank may be articulate, but he talks complete nonsense. Anyone with eyes can see the Fedor of recent years is a pale shadow of the Fedor from the 2000s.
Just like when MJ made his comeback. And Sugar Ray Leonard.
And countless other sporting greats who came back after retirements.
Fedor's obvious physical deterioration aside, he uses a far more limited offensive strategy. Nowhere near as dangerous as before. Less speed, durability, explosiveness and skills.
I think he's retained power, so he still can, I dearly hope, obliterate Frank in April.

 

[NHB7]

Lol.. that's just simply not true. Crocop has some of the best TDD of all time. So did Chuck.

You rarely seen slams at any point in mma.. unless you're watching a highlight reel

CroCop and Chuck were great at sprawl in response to the most common takedown of the day: double leg. Today, double leg is just a set up to a chain of takedown attempts. When Chuck came against Randy Couture the first time, he fought someone who wasn’t just shooting double legs and he lost and had to evolve.

When CroCop faced Fedor, he faced a guy that wasn’t just shooting double legs and had to do his best to stave off trip attacks. As a result it totally threw off his striking game and he lost.

Finally, finding a couple case examples of fighters who were ahead of their time doesn’t prove your point. Of course every era has guys that excel at a part of the game that others don’t. Which is why we say they’re great. Back then people were so amazed that CC and Chuck could sprawl so well. They would not be as appreciated for that today, because sooooo many people have great TDD.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

He obviously got older and instead of being a more "complete" fighter resorted to head hunting ONLY as his ONLY gameplan.

His older fights show that he would be too small for today's heavyweights, not because they are bigger than his earlier opponents but they are similarly situated with their overall skills levels.

the weird thing though is if you look at his fights against Monson, Ishii and Rizzo he fought tentative and smart.

whereas both against Moldanado and Mitrione he got clipped coming in. he's still trying to be the first to connect the way he has fought and connected against sylvia, goodridge, and others, but his speed isn't quite there nor his ability to take hard head hits.

it seems to me that he fights more stupid in a cage as opposed to a ring, and i have seen others mention this idea as well.


if fedor stays on the outside and waits for frank mir to make the first move, he'll probably be able to counter, but if he tries to go for the same strategy that he had against moldanado and mitrione then he's probably fucked...

 

[Deleted member 391673]

Good post.

I think fighting in a cage had a little bit to do with it as well. He could cut angles better in a ring and just seemed to have an overall better awareness.

I don't think Fedor ever really lost any ability. He just had shitty training camps and wasn't taking the right steps with his body and diet.

Imo his reflexes have always been there. He just got lazy with training as he started looking a little softer.

Lets look at the Gary Goodrich fight from 2003. Gary Goodrich was 36 years old. At that point Gary was a tough guy with a few good wins, but with a 17-14 record could probably be placed in the Journeyman's category with his best years arguably behind him.

Now Lets look at Fedor vs Pedro Rizzo from 2012. Pedro was 37 years old with a 19-9 record. He also had some really good wins in his day and even fought for the UFC HW strap three times; but his best years were behind him and he was also slipping into that Journeyman's category.

Keep in mind that these fights are 9 years apart with opponents that are pretty much the same age, The same skill level and at the same point in their career. Fedor looks a little softer in the Rizzo fight and is a little more hesitant to unload, but there isn't a noticeable difference in Fedor's Movement. Which leads me to believe that Fedor's ability has always been there.

Fedor 2003



Fedor 2012

also. that leg kick followed by a leg kick feint into the punch was great.

you can see rizzo lift his left leg in preparation for another leg kick and fedor unloads a punch instead.

 

[Evan_The_Kid_1]

Frank is just saying that for the chance that he MIGHT beat Fedor, just to make himself look better. Frank looks hella out of shape though and past prime Fedor has a chance against past prime Frank. It baffles me how some people can't accept that fighters won't have a prime forever. For a HW, Fedor in his prime WAS pretty well rounded.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Probably a little of both, combined with getting old.

Jarl

 

[hassebas]

Has he seen Fedor recently?...his style and skills are completely disintegrated from what it used to be. Sad but true.

Yes, I also think you know better than a pro mma veteran...

So many top-coaches here on sherdog...

Right..

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

Yes, I also think you know better than a pro mma veteran...

So many top-coaches here on sherdog...

Right..

What Frank Mir KNOWS and what he SAYS are not necessarily the same....especially when he's promoting a fight between two 40 year old legends.

Either that or he hasn't watched Fedor fight in the last 8 years...in which case I definitely AM better informed on this issue.

And I'm not a coach or a veteran fighters, I'm sure Frank is studying the intricacies of maneuvers that i don't even know the name of....but I'm still entitled to my opinion.

 

[Roukas]

Fedor used to utilize his grappling and striking together nowadays it's usually just strike sadly but when he mixed both of them he was the best then

 

[lukeuidswords]

Doesn't really benefit Frank to say Fedor is old and shot and barely even training anymore does it

 

[Sicarii]

Fedor was the best. It was not about him having to evolve, he had the best skillset and fight IQ. Somewhere along the line, with his management and training, he stopped doing all the great things and just went head hunting. Where is his takedowns now? His sambo throws? His submissions? No where. Has nothing to do with the sport catching up to him, he just stopped doing that amazing shit and got lazy by just trying to get a fun KO.

 

[cevo]

He obviously got older and instead of being a more "complete" fighter resorted to head hunting ONLY as his ONLY gameplan.

His older fights show that he would be too small for today's heavyweights, not because they are bigger than his earlier opponents but they are similarly situated with their overall skills levels.

Stipe and Cain would be really tough fights, but I think Fedor at his best beats all other heavyweights. Not like the division is packed with talent.

 

[Ryoto Machida]

Fedor vs Nog 3 and Fedor vs Cro-cop were two of the finest tactical masterpieces in HW MMA history.

He hasn't fought with anything resembling a plan since Cro-cop, IMO.

Plus I just don't think he's putting in anywhere near the training he used to.

I kind of feel he saw Cro-cop as his mountain, and once he conquered that, became rich and comfortable, he just never had the same kind of drive again.

Not t mention finding religion.

Atheist Fedor = GOAT

 

[phenomphan2]

Mir can knock out Fedor. The more likely scenario is an Americana submission.

 

[hugemmafan22]

Mir is a retard

PRIDE's heavyweight division was the most skilled heavyweight division ever and one of the most skilled divisions anywhere

Basic summary for people who forgot

Cro Cop - K-1 legend, MMA legend
Kharitonov - Boxing Champ, K-1 competitor, Elite MMA
Werdum - ADCC champ, Elite MMA
Barnett - Catch wrestling god, Elite MMA
Nog - BJJ great, Excellent boxing, legendary MMA
Hunt - K-1 champ, Very good MMA
Coleman - Olympic level wrestling, PRIDE GP and UFC champ
Fujita - Almost an Olympic wrestler, Elite pro wrestler
Fedor - Sambo legend, Ranked Judoka, God level MMA

PRIDE heavyweights were not only elite MMA fighters but had supreme skills in at least 1 combat sport

Compare this to the UFC

Micocic - Golden gloves champ (LOL) and College wrestler
That African Guy - Nothing and gases in 3 minutes
Cain - the son of Mexican farmers..Huge and good stamina but what else is there? Yeah he wrestled in college but who didn't ?

The "Fedor didn't evolve arguement" gaff that people keep repeating is just plain wrong

Fedor had nowhere to evolve, he was part of one of the most highly skilled divisions in history IMO.





There was nm

The funny thing is all of those guys you mentioned as highly elite in there combat sport have routinely been beaten at their combat sport portion of mma and finished except for Werdum who has continued to evolve.

 

[olimpicus]

Fedor used to fight as a grappler.
Today he is a headhunter with no Judo, no wrestling

 

[jono83]

The whole "game has evolved" thing always cracks me up. Guys at lighter weights have gotten more well rounded but the heavies seem to have gone backwards judging by the recent fights I've seen, especially watching Miocic dominate the biggest prospect in the sport. He won a one sided fight using basic 1-2's and very basic takedowns. He won every round using the same very basic techniques guys were using over a decade ago.