Frank Mir says Fedor never lost his ability, the game just caught up to him as the sport evolved.

That seems like the type of dickhead comment Mir would make in an attempt to rob Fedor of the credit he deserves. He was miles ahead of the next best contender and now he's been beaten by people who won't leave half his legacy. The sport doesn't evolve THAT much. His age caught up with him, it is really simple. Matt Mitrione didn't beat Fedor because he's some elite heavyweight and people didn't come out of the woodwork begging to fight him in the last three years because they feel like they're the best in the world. They wanted a cheap shot at a guy everyone knew was slowing down considerably so that they could add a big name to their win list for less than the price of actually beating a big name. It is actually pretty sad.
 
Lionel Mandrake said:
Good post.

I think fighting in a cage had a little bit to do with it as well. He could cut angles better in a ring and just seemed to have an overall better awareness.

I don't think Fedor ever really lost any ability. He just had shitty training camps and wasn't taking the right steps with his body and diet.

Imo his reflexes have always been there. He just got lazy with training as he started looking a little softer.

Lets look at the Gary Goodrich fight from 2003. Gary Goodrich was 36 years old. At that point Gary was a tough guy with a few good wins, but with a 17-14 record could probably be placed in the Journeyman's category with his best years arguably behind him.

Now Lets look at Fedor vs Pedro Rizzo from 2012. Pedro was 37 years old with a 19-9 record. He also had some really good wins in his day and even fought for the UFC HW strap three times; but his best years were behind him and he was also slipping into that Journeyman's category.

Keep in mind that these fights are 9 years apart with opponents that are pretty much the same age, The same skill level and at the same point in their career. Fedor looks a little softer in the Rizzo fight and is a little more hesitant to unload, but there isn't a noticeable difference in Fedor's Movement. Which leads me to believe that Fedor's ability has always been there.

Fedor 2003



Fedor 2012

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You're forgetting the most important aspects of Fedors game which he has completely lost.

His Judo, grappling and GnP.

Fedors standup was always risky, but what made it work was that he mixed it up and used the looping shots as an entry to the clinch. From there he would ragdoll guys and beat them up on the ground. Fedor has 16 sub wins, yet, not one since the Sylvia fight.

He has completely abandoned his grappling, and I suspect it's the injuries he's had to his hands, and the rest of his body, that made him forgo his Judo and GnP. You gotta remember, that Fedor, besides having 40 MMA fights and fighting since 2000, also was a multiple time Sambo Champion with a lot of fights and a Judokai.

Age, injuries, loss of motivation, lack of gameplanning, complete loss of grappling and loss of strength is what did him in mostly.
 
welcometohavoc said:
It happens. Look at crocop when he came to the ufc. He was supposed to be hw champ in 2 fights and ended up getting ko’d by the likes of Gonzaga and Schaub. The game evolved fast.
Click to expand...

Chuck was supposed to beat Rampage, Franklin was supposed to beat Anderson, and Machida was supposed to spark Shogun.

It's not evolution, some fighters just fall from the top at different times than others.

The sport is far deeper than before, but at the very top I see very little difference in talent/skill.

I'd pick prime Fedor, Chuck, Anderson, GSP, and Penn against today's champs.
 
Fedor used to fight in multiple Sambo competitions, while fighting MMA 3 times per year.

Fedor used to train at Red Devil Sports Club and Golden Glory, sparring with the best sambo and K1 guys in the world. He used to spar with guys like Gegard, Aleksander, and Alistair Overeem day in, day out.

Now he fights once per year and trains in Stary Oskol with nobody.

If you think that's the same guy that's showing up to fights, let me finish by reminding you that he was fighting guys like Nog FIFTEEN YEARS ago.

Also, two of the first guys that beat him first were Werdum and Hendo who fought in Japan and couldn't win the title. So please don't bother with "He fought easier competition in Japan BS as it
literally makes no sense unless you are a Chael Sonnen fan. (Who himself couldn't even get a single win in Japan back then)
 
welcometohavoc said:
It happens. Look at crocop when he came to the ufc. He was supposed to be hw champ in 2 fights and ended up getting ko’d by the likes of Gonzaga and Schaub. The game evolved fast.
Click to expand...
The game "evolved fast" and yet the likes of Hunt and Arlovski who Fedor stopped in one round are still ranked and headlining UFC cards? Derrick Lewis is ranked in the top 10.

The #1 heavyweight contender Ngannou is no better than prime Bob Sapp for fucks sake.

I'm sorry but the game has barely evolved at heavyweight. Overeem, Barnett, Hunt, Werdum are still top guys.

Getting old and worn down happens though....at a different rate for everyone.
 
Last edited:
manboy<3 said:
Mir is a retard

PRIDE's heavyweight division was the most skilled heavyweight division ever and one of the most skilled divisions anywhere

Basic summary for people who forgot

Cro Cop - K-1 legend, MMA legend
Kharitonov - Boxing Champ, K-1 competitor, Elite MMA
Werdum - ADCC champ, Elite MMA
Barnett - Catch wrestling god, Elite MMA
Nog - BJJ great, Excellent boxing, legendary MMA
Hunt - K-1 champ, Very good MMA
Coleman - Olympic level wrestling, PRIDE GP and UFC champ
Fujita - Almost an Olympic wrestler, Elite pro wrestler
Fedor - Sambo legend, Ranked Judoka, God level MMA

PRIDE heavyweights were not only elite MMA fighters but had supreme skills in at least 1 combat sport

Compare this to the UFC

Micocic - Golden gloves champ (LOL) and College wrestler
That African Guy - Nothing and gases in 3 minutes
Cain - the son of Mexican farmers..Huge and good stamina but what else is there? Yeah he wrestled in college but who didn't ?

The "Fedor didn't evolve arguement" gaff that people keep repeating is just plain wrong

Fedor had nowhere to evolve, he was part of one of the most highly skilled divisions in history IMO.





There was nm
Click to expand...
You included Fujita?<36>
 
Age and evolution of the overall fight game hurt Fedor. He should of stayed retired would of kept his mystic alive forever.
 
Spoken like a shertarder.

MMA hasn’t evolved significantly from Frank Shamrock...let alone Emelianenko Fyodor.

What caught up to Fedor was the devolution of his own game. He became a headhunter and neglected the grappling portion of his game. Also, reflexes and quickness can go any ol time. Those attributes were extremely important for Fedor and aren’t present in his fights.

Does Dan Henderson, Bigfoot, Mitrione, and Werdum really represent some evolution that Fedor would have never, at any point, been able to handle? Explain that to me. That’s the implication when you say a guy is basically a relic and his game just wasn’t evolved enough for the likes of new breed fighters like Dan Henderson..cross training jack of all trades like Mitrione(oh wait, he’s just a headhunter)..slow giants like Bigfoot..and at the time a BJJ ace only in Fabrício Werdum. Yeah, it’s evolution.

Get the fuck out of here, Frank
 
maxi diablo said:
A litle bit of both. Fighters are more skilled than before and Fedor just got old.
Click to expand...
just from watching his older fights compared to his recent ones, so much of his success came from him beating people to the punch. now that he is older, he is a bit slower which is no longer allowing him to land some of his techniques that would 10 years ago. and since he hasn't evolved his fighting style to accommodate for these declines, fighters who wouldn't have posed a problem back in the day, are not only having success, but are able to beat him.
 
It’s a mix of both. Age caught up to Fedor and wear-and-tear caught up to Fedor. But old Fedor is still a legit badass. At the same time, fighters have evolved and some of the things that made him unique aren’t so unique anymore.
 
I guess this is the Bellator forum now because Fedor is a hot topic yet has nothing to do with the UFC
 
NHB7 said:
It’s a mix of both. Age caught up to Fedor and wear-and-tear caught up to Fedor. But old Fedor is still a legit badass. At the same time, fighters have evolved and some of the things that made him unique aren’t so unique anymore.
Click to expand...


How did it evolve?
 
Stating the obvious, he's been fighting lumbering Giants and beating them because they are slow. Now HWs are as fast as the MWs of 12 years ago
 
Mga223 said:
Fedor didnt evolve


Went from game plans to rock em sock em robots.

His losses weren't due to losing his speed, power and reflexes.

It was from becoming lazy.
Click to expand...

'unmotivated' might be the kinder way to put it, but yeah.
 
jaredmc16 said:
How did it evolve?
Click to expand...

For one thing, TDD is soooo much better today. I was just pointing out to a friend that we rarely see great slams anymore because of the quality of TDD.

Not that there aren’t takedowns anymore, but they one doing the takedown usually has to work hard for it. I have a hard time picturing Fedor land his trips the way he use to so fluidly.
 
Fedor's decline happened when he started fighting impatiently around when he came to America the 2nd time

not a bad way to fight Sylvia but Henderson and Maldonado are a diff. story
 
I don't want to be "that guy", but he comes to the states, and he quickly looks like a shell of his former self.

It's possible that his legal use of enhancements in pride caused him to deteriorate more quickly when he couldn't use them stateside.

He's still an all time great, and everyone in pride was using, so it wasn't like it was an unfair playing field. There's no testing there. You pretty much had to use to be competitive.

He's still a great fighter with a great skill set. He just goes down easier now, and doesn't hit as hard. Nor does he have the strength to power out of submission attempts like he used to.

Mir is getting up there in years as well. Perhaps with similar physical ability, this fight could be interesting and Fedor has a good chance of winning. I just hope he doesn't underestimate Mir's standup, which is decent and has enough power to rock an old chin :)
 
NHB7 said:
For one thing, TDD is soooo much better today. I was just pointing out to a friend that we rarely see great slams anymore because of the quality of TDD.

Not that there aren’t takedowns anymore, but they one doing the takedown usually has to work hard for it. I have a hard time picturing Fedor land his trips the way he use to so fluidly.
Click to expand...

Lol.. that's just simply not true. Crocop has some of the best TDD of all time. So did Chuck.

You rarely seen slams at any point in mma.. unless you're watching a highlight reel
 
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