Four Young Illegal Immigrants Committed Serious Crimes in the Last Month

https://www.nap.edu/read/21746/chapter/9

https://www.cato.org/publications/i...migrants-their-numbers-demographics-countries

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418825.2012.659200?journalCode=rjqy20

http://www.nber.org/papers/w13229.pdf

Pretty well-known finding. BTW, second-generation immigrants tend to be very similar to other native-born citizens (meaning that they have a higher crime rate than their parents). So immigration reduces the crime rate but the effects aren't lasting.

I know, I just wanted that evidence in this thread and did not have time to look it up right now.
 
Do you support stricter gun laws to reduce school shootings? Seems like you're saying that the reasoning behind that is the same as the reasoning behind supporting devoting police resources to round up people who were brought to America as children, and that it's thus inconsistent to have different positions on both issues.

FWIW, I disagree with the idea that the reasoning is similar. We know that immigrants actually commit crimes at a lower rate than natural-born citizens. So I'd say that wanting to deport people because as a group their crime rate is not zero makes as much sense as wanting to reduce births because there is a non-zero crime rate for people born here.
We know that? Since when do we know that? Are you talking about the comparisons they've made to juvenile offenders, the city of Detroit, and the black population? We aren't talking about immigrants as a whole, we're talking about illegal immigrants. Why would anybody want to import criminals when we already have our own to worry about?

And no, I don't support additional laws that would leave me unsafe and dependent on the people who can't follow existing laws. I responded to the other poster who said it's no big deal when someone who isn't even supposed to be here rapes a kid because most illegals don't.
 
We know that? Since when do we know that? Are you talking about the comparisons they've made to juvenile offenders, the city of Detroit, and the black population? We aren't talking about immigrants as a whole, we're talking about illegal immigrants. Why would anybody want to import criminals when we already have our own to worry about?

So this is just a factual issue. You aren't aware of the fact that immigrants (including unauthorized immigrants) commit crimes at a lower rate than the native born. I am very confident that if you look into the issue, you will see that they do, assuming it is possible for data to cause you to re-evaluate your positions.

And no, I don't support additional laws that would leave me unsafe and dependent on the people who can't follow existing laws. I responded to the other poster who said it's no big deal when someone who isn't even supposed to be here rapes a kid because most illegals don't.

So by your own standards, you are being illogical. You're saying that the reasoning on two positions is identical but reversed and someone else who holds different positions on the issues is being illogical, but you also hold different positions on both issues.

Also, you realize that you are wildly misrepresenting the argument, right? Like, that's deliberate dishonesty rather than you honestly not understanding. Here's the exchange:

@KONG-D'SNT-TAP: "So 4 people did something but millions didn't. Great story"

You: "Is it safe to assume you apply that same thinking to gun control? Some people shot up a school, but millions didn't so let's can it with added gun restrictions."

Kong is saying that wai's post refers to about 0.00011% of all Dreamers in the country so it doesn't discredit the whole program.

If you're saying that the reasoning is different (that it makes people safer to have easier access to guns--another simple factual error on your part), that's a different conversation.
 
Four people in the last month, dummy.

And the thread isn't intended to paint all the DACA-eligible with one stroke. It's to counter the misleading statements of the mainstream politicians like Kamala Harris.

It's weird how they the left is so observant when it suits them, but they dont seem to have a problem with the way Harris politicizes the dreamers.
 
It's weird how they the left is so observant when it suits them, but they dont seem to have a problem with the way Harris politicizes the dreamers.

What does that mean? Some of us want to deal humanely with people who were brought to the country as children (and thus likely have no home to go back to if they are deported) and have demonstrated an ability to abide by the laws once here. Others don't see those people as being worthy of humane treatment because of their ethnicity. Isn't that what the issue boils down to?
 
Kong is saying that wai's post refers to about 0.00011% of all Dreamers in the country so it doesn't discredit the whole program.

My issue isn't actually with dreamers. But rather the way people prop them up even when they do horrible things. They are getting shielded from punishments.

Police in Seaside, Oregon, had arrested Lopez-Fabian for multiple rapes of a girl “younger than 14,” assault and harassment.

Law enforcement then released Lopez-Fabian the day of his arrest, without notifying I.C.E., despite the fact that he had already been deported twice to his native Guatemala, in 2013 and 2014.

(different guy)His convictions stemmed from an incident last year when Melchi-Sigas was sitting in the back seat of a car, examining an illegal gun he intended to purchase, and accidentally shot and killed the man in the front seat.

If these guys were American citizens they'd be absolutely FUCKED, but because of the politicization, they get released to do the same shit.

There was also that cop who got murdered by the guy who had been convicted in a drive by shooting less then a year before I think it was!?

Would you guess there are more doctors and lawyers in the dreamers or criminals?
 
What does that mean? Some of us want to deal humanely with people who were brought to the country as children (and thus likely have no home to go back to if they are deported) and have demonstrated an ability to abide by the laws once here. Others don't see those people as being worthy of humane treatment because of their ethnicity. Isn't that what the issue boils down to?

The guy that raped kids... why was he released without arranging his deportation?

I would be more inclined to support the whole Dreamer thing if they separated the wheat from the chaff. They seem to defend child rapists like this in an attempt to defend Dreamers. It's stupid and uneccesary. Also dangerous for US citizens.
 
I don't think @KONG-D'SNT-TAP thinks much. It's more pure emotion, no critical thinking, just pure unadulterated:
3rnvk6.jpg


Also, according to many here, there is a mass shooting every day. MASS. Lots of Pol Pot action going on in America.


You would punish millions of people who have been here for many years because a few people did some shitty things. These people work, have children here and participate in the American system. After years of their labor and hardwork you’d gladly throw the m out because a small number did some bad stuff. That’s the difference between our thinking.
 
The guy that raped kids... why was he released without arranging his deportation?

I would be more inclined to support the whole Dreamer thing if they separated the wheat from the chaff. They seem to defend child rapists like this in an attempt to defend Dreamers. It's stupid and uneccesary. Also dangerous for US citizens.

Well, the thing is, these are the requirements for being a Dreamer:

1. Were under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012;
2. Came to the United States before reaching their 16th birthday;
3. Have continuously resided in the United States since June 15, 2007, up to the present time;
4. Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making their request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;
5. Entered without inspection before June 15, 2012, or their lawful immigration status expired as of June 15, 2012;
6. Are currently in school, have graduated or obtained a certificate of completion from high school, have obtained a general education development (GED) certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States; and
7. Have not been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor, three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety.

So these people are irrelevant to the program. Assuming the reports are accurate, they obviously would not qualify.
 
Well, the thing is, these are the requirements for being a Dreamer:



So these people are irrelevant to the program. Assuming the reports are accurate, they obviously would not qualify.

Yet it seems they have qualified. I think that is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they need to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
Yet it seems they have qualified. I think that is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

It seems pretty clearly that they wouldn't qualify. Note also that the source the TS cites is Breitbart, which is not credible.
 
It seems pretty clearly that they wouldn't qualify. Note also that the source the TS cites is Breitbart, which is not credible.

If they aren't qualified as dreamers then why are they not being deported for serious felony crimes?
 
If they aren't qualified as dreamers then why are they not being deported for serious felony crimes?

I'd need to see a more credible source on the story to comment. Looks like he was deported twice and made it back. Might be better to charge him here. Not a Dreamer at all, doesn't look like.
 
I'd need to see a more credible source on the story to comment. Looks like he was deported twice and made it back. Might be better to charge him here. Not a Dreamer at all, doesn't look like.

Well they released him. They didn't deport him or turn him over.
 
Literally the first example in this thread is of a man who has been deported twice before. This is the man you keep bringing up as a rapist. If this man were protected by DACA he wouldn't have been deported twice already lol. You keep posting that democrats are spreading propaganda to defend dreamers. What would you call a thread or a news story (thanks breitbart!) that calls criminals Dreamers without any proof in an effort to highlight criminality amongst dreamers? Propaganda.
 
He was released on bail (we don't put people in prison until they have been convicted) but then taken to a detention center.

He was released on bail (illegal immigrants aren't a flight risk!?) And was not taken to a detention center until ICE caught him.

So an illegal immigrant who has already been deported twice, gets bail and is released on his own recognizance after being accused of raping a young girl?

And people wonder why US citizens are fed up with illegal immigration?
 
Literally the first example in this thread is of a man who has been deported twice before. This is the man you keep bringing up as a rapist. If this man were protected by DACA he wouldn't have been deported twice already lol. You keep posting that democrats are spreading propaganda to defend dreamers. What would you call a thread or a news story (thanks breitbart!) that calls criminals Dreamers without any proof in an effort to highlight criminality amongst dreamers? Propaganda.

He was deported twice, yet still being protected after he rapes a little girl... that is the problem
 
So we have 4 documented and publicized instances of some seriously deviant behavior in the last month out of, conservatively, 3 million dreamer aged illegals living in the US. Oh my God- It's a cataclysm!!!!!

I think if you drill down on it, you will see that on the whole, illegal immigrant crime is less than the US average. Which means they commit fewer crimes per capita than native born citizens.

http://www.politifact.com/californi...-true-undocumented-immigrants-less-likely-co/
 

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