Fmr CIA director US "probably" meddles in other countrie's elections, but for a good cause

[EZShrimpn]

K wait i was ok with the pic until one of the guys is supposed to be baghdadi. Source?

Been trying to figure out which moderate heart eating rebel islamist group they belong to, but the internet appears to not be coughing that up. Simply that they are "Affiliated with the FSA."

If anyone could provide an authoritative source, I'm all ears. But AFAIK many of these Syrian "Rebel" groups are essentially Al-qaida.

 

[DespicablePeep]

This is why I can't take americans seriously when they cry Russia. they have meddled every election in South and Central America, even as far as coups, millions died.

And the Trump thing is is pribably fake, its all Hillary bitching mostly

 

[Fawlty]

There is no excuse for the citizens of this country to tolerate meddling in our own election. Sorry, even the best whataboutism is still whataboutism. But consider a case like Ukraine. Without our meddling, it's 100% Russian meddling. I have no moral problem with fighting that to try to bring them to the good side.

 

[MicroBrew]

This is why I can't take americans seriously when they cry Russia. they have meddled every election in South and Central America, even as far as coups, millions died.

And the Trump thing is is pribably fake, its all Hillary bitching mostly

Hillary lost cause she was a crappy candidate and the masses perceived Trump as the anti-establishment candidate.
I do not believe Russia actually thwarted the voting process, but I do believe they waged a propaganda campaign against Hillary, but apart from possibly hacking Clinton camp servers, I don't think it is illegal for any foreigners to wage a propaganda media campaign.

Half of me hopes, it does eventually emerge Russia played a big part in the anti-Clinton propaganda campaign, just as big ole middle finger from Russia to the Clintons for their 1990s Russian election meddling.

 

[MicroBrew]

There is no excuse for the citizens of this country to tolerate meddling in our own election. Sorry, even the best whataboutism is still whataboutism. But consider a case like Ukraine. Without our meddling, it's 100% Russian meddling. I have no moral problem with fighting that to try to bring them to the good side.

The US isn't necessarily the "good side" though. There's plenty of examples of US meddling be the cause of massive human rights violations.
I don't consider the US the "good side" just because I am an American.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Any link to which secular rebel groups?

Did I literally not just post and tell you the guy they claim to be Al Baghdadi was in fact a commander for the Northern Storm Brigade which was a secular rebel group in Syria at the time?

Why don't you do some research on your own, just curious? This is all incredibly easy to find in a web search if you actually cared to.

 

[Fawlty]

The US isn't necessarily the "good side" though. There's plenty of examples of US meddling be the cause of massive human rights violations.
I don't consider the US the "good side" just because I am an American.

We are absolutely the good side when it comes to Russia.

 

[HomerThompson]

There is no excuse for the citizens of this country to tolerate meddling in our own election. Sorry, even the best whataboutism is still whataboutism. But consider a case like Ukraine. Without our meddling, it's 100% Russian meddling. I have no moral problem with fighting that to try to bring them to the good side.

The Good Side? Little overly hyperbolic there, fella. How are we the "good side" in Ukraine? Because we want to put NATO weapons literally on Russia's doorstep? C'mon, man.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

We may occasionally assassinate the leader of another country, but I don't believe we would ever stoop so low as to put false information on facebook. We have standards damn it!

 

[Fawlty]

The Good Side? Little overly hyperbolic there, fella. How are we the "good side" in Ukraine? Because we want to put NATO weapons literally on Russia's doorstep? C'mon, man.

Doesn't Russian territorial/military aggression toward eastern Europe justify the fortifications? I'm no mark for Putin's crocodile tears. And Ukraine as a western ally is obviously good. Trade Turkey for them.

 

[EZShrimpn]

Did I literally not just post and tell you the guy they claim to be Al Baghdadi was in fact a commander for the Northern Storm Brigade which was a secular rebel group in Syria at the time?

Why don't you do some research on your own, just curious? This is all incredibly easy to find in a web search if you actually cared to.

They're a part of the Islamic front. They are Islamists. Not Secularists. You lied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Storm_Brigade#History

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Front_(Syria)

 

[HomerThompson]

Doesn't Russian territorial/military aggression toward eastern Europe justify the fortifications? I'm no mark for Putin's crocodile tears. And Ukraine as a western ally is obviously good. Trade Turkey for them.

What territorial expansion? Crimea?

 

[MicroBrew]

We are absolutely the good side when it comes to Russia.

Disagree.
Example: Apartheid South Africa, Guatemala, Vietnam, support for Saudi Arabia, supporting Pakistan in their genocidal war against East Pakistan. Supporting Indonesia's colonialism and genocide of East Timorese. Supporting Death Squads in Latin America. Supporting Islamists and Jihadists in the Arab world. Supporting Mubarak.

Supporting Israel. Supporting the Taleban in the late 1990s, when they were committing genocide and ethnic cleansing, whereas the Russians were supporting the anti-Taleban Northern Alliance.

There are no good sides in Syria, but if the US had deposed Assad, there would certainly have been a Sunni jihadi takeover resulting in genocide and ethnic cleansing of minorities.

 

[Fawlty]

What territorial expansion? Crimea?

Yes. Territory of a founding UN member acquired through military conquest. And invasion of other parts of Ukraine. I won't minimize it.

 

[MicroBrew]

Doesn't Russian territorial/military aggression toward eastern Europe justify the fortifications? I'm no mark for Putin's crocodile tears. And Ukraine as a western ally is obviously good. Trade Turkey for them.

Crimea is 90-95% Russian. It shouldn't come as a surprise they want to join with their Russian kin, instead of being under the control of Western Ukraine. Crimea was a part of Russia under the USSR, it was only given as a gift to Ukraine because the Russians never imagined the end of the USSR and thus Crimea ever being separate from Russia.

 

[HomerThompson]

Yes. Territory of a founding UN member acquired through military conquest. And invasion of other parts of Ukraine. I won't minimize it.

They did it in response to US meddling in the Ukrainian elections, though. You think we'd be cool with Russia convincing Mexico to be their boys instead, and to put Russian missiles all over our border? I know you don't think that.

 

[Fawlty]

Disagree.
Example: Apartheid South Africa, Guatemala, Vietnam, support for Saudi Arabia, supporting Pakistan in their genocidal war against East Pakistan. Supporting Indonesia's colonialism and genocide of East Timorese. Supporting Death Squads in Latin America. Supporting Islamists and Jihadists in the Arab world. Supporting Mubarak.

Supporting Israel. Supporting the Taleban in the late 1990s, when they were committing genocide and ethnic cleansing, whereas the Russians were supporting the anti-Taleban Northern Alliance.

There are no good sides in Syria, but if the US had deposed Assad, there would certainly have been a Sunni jihadi takeover resulting in genocide and ethnic cleansing of minorities.

You admit our sins of the past, but not Russia's? That's not a fair argument. Let's keep it current or we can start talking about the Iron Curtain, which won't get us anywhere. I won't deny the horrible shit we've done, no worries.

Right now, who is the bad actor in the world? Who is supporting Assad's war on his own people, and who is willing to slap him for it? We're certainly not conquering territory, unlike somebody I could mention. Their campaign against all of western democracy is pretty staggering too.

 

[Fawlty]

They did it in response to US meddling in the Ukrainian elections, though. You think we'd be cool with Russia convincing Mexico to be their boys instead, and to put Russian missiles all over our border? I know you don't think that.

Don't even pretend that we weren't having a political struggle with Russia for Ukrainian influence, where they were the major force, not us. I guess Manafort was really working for the good guys! That sure tangles into a knot fast, doesn't it?

 

[HomerThompson]

Don't even pretend that we weren't having a political struggle with Russia for Ukrainian influence, where they were the major force, not us. I guess Manafort was really working for the good guys! That sure tangles into a knot fast, doesn't it?

Now you're deflecting, bud. I didn't say they were the good guys, but that doesn't mean that we are. What right do we have to meddle in Ukrainian elections?

 

[EZShrimpn]

Right now, who is the bad actor in the world?

Assuming a universal morality to international relations. Fail.

Who is supporting Assad's war on his own people, and who is willing to slap him for it?

Who cares? Assad's secular government is the legitimate government of Syria under international law and they are allowed to suppress violent islamist rebellion that would plunge the nation into an Islamist dark age.

This is not in question and the U.S. presence in that country is on very shaky ground legally. If Neocons want Assad gone so badly, maybe they should go strap up and invade them. Americans don't give a shit.

We're certainly not conquering territory, unlike somebody I could mention. Their campaign against all of western democracy is pretty staggering too.

Yeah we've only been parking our military bases hundreds of countries for decades.