Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Sugar Ray Robinson - Who wins?

[zapataxiv]

I was saying because of various things in here people shitting on Floyd for an 0-0 fighter as a reason why ray is better doesn't stack up because he did the same.

Not criming either of them for doing it, if your way of making money is prizefighting you do what you have to.

ahh i see then i agree with you again

Near the end of his career srr was fighting people on debut. There are world champions who were fighting people with losing records. How often does that happen now?

but can you see how i interpreted this post as shitting on SRR for the exact same thing?
my feelings are the same though its prize fighting you do what you have to. Furthermore on the point of champs fighting overmatched opponents i mean that happens all the time even up till now really the only difference is just the frequency of matches. Something we both know and has been discussed to death across multiple boards .

 

[Seano]

the Conor fight is just a circus. It does nothing one way or the other for his legacy.

Well, unless he lost I guess.

 

[Sunfish]

ahh i see then i agree with you again

but can you see how i interpreted this post as shitting on SRR for the exact same thing?
my feelings are the same though its prize fighting you do what you have to. Furthermore on the point of champs fighting overmatched opponents i mean that happens all the time even up till now really the only difference is just the frequency of matches. Something we both know and has been discussed to death across multiple boards .

Definitely. We need something like another @MC Paul Barman South African prospects thread.

 

[zapataxiv]

Definitely. We need something like another @MC Paul Barman South African prospects thread.

For sure, hell i stay peppering my jab. Living dat lyfe

 

[Streeter]

not implying that you didn't know any of that. (actually i am familiar with your posts from NOBS)
what does the second sentence mean? sorry i really don't understand what you are trying to say

Thats too hyperbolic
Money is a great fighter and boxer it would not be an easy fight for SRR in any sense.

Ummm SRR had insane speed and some of the best power ever for a mw. Had money fought him he loses badly an embarrassed. Floyd has defense yes but SRR had everything.

 

[zapataxiv]

Ummm SRR had insane speed and some of the best power ever for a mw. Had money fought him he loses badly an embarrassed. Floyd has defense yes but SRR had everything.

yes but timing beats speed, accuracy beats power, floyd is not an easy match and his footwork is impeccable as well. Sugar would have to fight a different fight than we have seen footage of him fighting. I don't doubt SRR has those talents but to just walk over a guy like floyd inches prime docent happen. Especially considering his ability to adjust in the ring. Just because Sugar can be fast and blitz people does not mean he could do the same thing to caliber of fighter that floyd is. Floyd counters, foot work, body work everything would play together to limit punching volume and speed.
I still se SRR winning but it is no walk in the park.

 

[zapataxiv]

the Conor fight is just a circus. It does nothing one way or the other for his legacy.

Well, unless he lost I guess.

thats not the discussion the discussion is saying SRR is not as good as people say he is because he fought overmatched guys, Debutants, or Squash matches, when guys now days don't do that as much.
my point was not to shit on floyd but just saying doing a pointless fight when you are over the hill for money really does not have an effect on your legacy. so why should it be a blemish on SRR's?

 

[Sunfish]

None of us sit there saying lolz Ali lost to spinks...

 

[Seano]

thats not the discussion the discussion is saying SRR is not as good as people say he is because he fought overmatched guys, Debutants, or Squash matches, when guys now days don't do that as much.
my point was not to shit on floyd but just saying doing a pointless fight when you are over the hill for money really does not have an effect on your legacy. so why should it be a blemish on SRR's?

A lot of boxing historians do like to tell people that their favorites fought killers everytime out.

 

[nac386]

You know, I never really thought about the fact that Sugar Ray Robinson fought for a while as a lightweight. Is it possible that we are exaggerating how much bigger he is than Floyd?

 

[Sunfish]

You know, I never really thought about the fact that Sugar Ray Robinson fought for a while as a lightweight. Is it possible that we are exaggerating how much bigger he is than Floyd?

He's a fair bit taller, I don't know his reach so if he has longer reach than 72 he's bigger in two key aspects. If not I guess he would only have height on him.

 

[zapataxiv]

You know, I never really thought about the fact that Sugar Ray Robinson fought for a while as a lightweight. Is it possible that we are exaggerating how much bigger he is than Floyd?

doing a Bing search it says SRR had a 72 and half inch reach so that is practically the same. the impression of sugars weight is probably coming from the fact that the best footage we have of ray is when he was fat (by boxing terms) fighting in higher weight classes out of his prime.
Sugar is basically taller then floyd thats it.

 

[zapataxiv]

A lot of boxing historians do like to tell people that their favorites fought killers everytime out.

yes that is true, to a degree....
its a counter to the argument that everybody back then was bums thats why none of the records are sparkling. Both of us know it is more complicated than that there have always been talented guys who had bad luck, bad management, or bad sense and got a raw deal. Meanwhile there have always been tomato cans, fighters who just want a paycheck, and quitters. Some guys were killers despite there record and some guys were powder puffs despite their records.
either way overgeneralizing the issue is never good.

 

[Streeter]

yes but timing beats speed, accuracy beats power, floyd is not an easy match and his footwork is impeccable as well. Sugar would have to fight a different fight than we have seen footage of him fighting. I don't doubt SRR has those talents but to just walk over a guy like floyd inches prime docent happen. Especially considering his ability to adjust in the ring. Just because Sugar can be fast and blitz people does not mean he could do the same thing to caliber of fighter that floyd is. Floyd counters, foot work, body work everything would play together to limit punching volume and speed.
I still se SRR winning but it is no walk in the park.

I disagree. SRR would take no damage as Floyd even in his prime never really showed any serious power against serious comp. I see no way Floyd last 5 rounds with a prime SRR all things equal

 

[zapataxiv]

I disagree. SRR would take no damage as Floyd even in his prime never really showed any serious power against serious comp. I see no way Floyd last 5 rounds with a prime SRR all things equal

well thats not even true plenty of boxers say floyd's punches hurt and he managed to keep everybody he's fought respectful of his punches.
its more complicated then just punching power SRR would need to walk through may and that is not happening floyd cuts angles, uses small pivots, and uses small hop steps and blends it with counters that would play in limiting Sugar's offense and would make Floyd a harder target. There is also the fact that Floyd has beard on him so even if Sugar gets to him there is no evidence that Floyd would just crumble.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

See I love these kind of threads. About to be balls deep in law school so this forum is what im going to be reading in my free time.

Anyways.....SRR wins.

 

[Noctilux]

SRL beats both.

 

[zapataxiv]

SRL beats both.

its possible Leonard probably has the most punch speed and is a great finisher with quite a bit of pop. Leonard is a guy who you can't really say anybody would have a easy day with him, Maybe he is less mobile then floyd and Robinson but aside from duran i don't really see why you would want to stand with Leonard.

See I love these kind of threads. About to be balls deep in law school so this forum is what im going to be reading in my free time.

Anyways.....SRR wins.

good luck

 

[Streeter]

well thats not even true plenty of boxers say floyd's punches hurt and he managed to keep everybody he's fought respectful of his punches.
its more complicated then just punching power SRR would need to walk through may and that is not happening floyd cuts angles, uses small pivots, and uses small hop steps and blends it with counters that would play in limiting Sugar's offense and would make Floyd a harder target. There is also the fact that Floyd has beard on him so even if Sugar gets to him there is no evidence that Floyd would just crumble.

Lol ....... name a fighter he hurt with a punch? Hatton was a acumulation and Ortiz,was a cheap shot unless u are so on Floyd s nuts u want to defend that shot. WHO is it floyd hurt with his power?

I give the guy credit as he is indeed the greatest defensive boxer ever. But to put him with the p4p greatest of all time SRR is just stupid talk. SRR is on of the few if maybe only fighter that had no weakness the man had everything. .... speed, power, iq, defense, etc.. Floyd was the best for 20 years but if floyd was fighting in the 20 years before he fought having to fight Duran, Hearns, SRL etc his career imo looks much different ...... in an era when people fought the best at their best an while about mo ey not just about money

 

[zapataxiv]

Lol ....... name a fighter he hurt with a punch? Hatton was a acumulation and Ortiz,was a cheap shot unless u are so on Floyd s nuts u want to defend that shot. WHO is it floyd hurt with his power?

I give the guy credit as he is indeed the greatest defensive boxer ever. But to put him with the p4p greatest of all time SRR is just stupid talk. SRR is on of the few if maybe only fighter that had no weakness the man had everything. .... speed, power, iq, defense, etc.. Floyd was the best for 20 years but if floyd was fighting in the 20 years before he fought having to fight Duran, Hearns, SRL etc his career imo looks much different ...... in an era when people fought the best at their best an while about mo ey not just about money

he hurt plenty of guys he wasn't knocking them down but he was buzzing people with shots, he got to Mosley in their fight, he got to Cotto, at the lower weights he hurt plenty of guys.
catching somebody with a check hook when they walk into it is not an accumulation of punches it came about from an accumulation of rounds of being positionally dominated though.
May is not a one hitter quitter but that doesn't mean his punches don't have power, theres levels to this game.
the rest is hyperbole and a narrative that has been popularized on message boards, while it does have its followers it is purely opinion.