Finishing the Armbar in Training

[biscuitsbrah]

So I always get armbars on people but I can’t finish it unless I crank it. Before I would get it on whitebelts, hold the arm and slowly pull on it and they would eventually give up and tap.

Now that I get it on bluebelts and higher and train almost exclusively no gi, I can’t finish the armbar without cranking it and possibly hurting my partners arms.

They will hitchhiker, scramble, and just be very persistent and squirrelly when I’m in like step 9 of 10 to finishing the arm bar.

Am I being too nice or is my control just bad too... I feel like it’s an absolute wrap if I crank it and control the wrist, but without the hard pressure on the elbow, people are escaping.

Videos to finishing the armbar or controlling the finish position?

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Btw for now i have decided to just finish the armbar hard until I learn how to control it. If it hurts their elbow joint for a second or two before they tap than so be it.

The only times my arm has popped from armbars are against people 40-50 lbs heavier than me.

It’s kinda like the wristlock right? You must momentarily create extreme pain otherwise the move is not effective

 

[Peuhkis]

If they dont tap before it hurts, its their problem. They certainly know its coming at that point.

 

[EGDM]

If they're escaping then you don't have control. You should have enough control to apply your armbar over 3-4 seconds without fear of losing position. If you have this and they're still not tapping, then they're dumb. If they're dumb, don't hurt them. There is no useful purpose in knowingly injuring your training partners. Just take the moral victory of knowing that you could have finished, let them go, and move to the next position. Then find smarter training partners.

It’s kinda like the wristlock right? You must momentarily create extreme pain otherwise the move is not effective

No. Neither the wristlock nor armbar should be applied like this in training (or hobbyist competition, imo). Some wrist lock variants don't have sufficient control to get a tap without singnificant risk of injury, but that's a fault of the position and not the submission. It is entirely possible to apply wristlocks slowly and with no risk of escape.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

If they're escaping then you don't have control. You should have enough control to apply your armbar over 3-4 seconds without fear of losing position. If you have this and they're still not tapping, then they're dumb. If they're dumb, don't hurt them. There is no useful purpose in knowingly injuring your training partners. Just take the moral victory of knowing that you could have finished, let them go, and move to the next position. Then find smarter training partners.



No. Neither the wristlock nor armbar should be applied like this in training (or hobbyist competition, imo). Some wrist lock variants don't have sufficient control to get a tap without singnificant risk of injury, but that's a fault of the position and not the submission. It is entirely possible to apply wristlocks slowly and with no risk of escape.

I think this sums it up well. You need to work on controlling them but thar has nothing to do with how hard you crank the arm. If you have them controlled and the arm fully extended and they won't tap still no need to hurt them. Use this as an opportunity to practice transitioning from a failed armbar to something else.

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

I'm not sure why you are losing it. When I arm bar from the top I typically nevery make it to laying flat on my back. I control the arm, swing my leg around, that foot needs to be flat on the ground. When i get to this point there is no space between my crotch and his arm. None at all. I squeeze my knees and start to pull his arm off to the side of my thigh away from his head. If I have it right they tap before my back hits the ground.
I also do my arm bars slow. I'm not in a rush because if I lock up his arm near his wrist, I am getting the arm bar. Why hurry. Enjoy it. Savor it.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I'm not sure why you are losing it. When I arm bar from the top I typically nevery make it to laying flat on my back. I control the arm, swing my leg around, that foot needs to be flat on the ground. When i get to this point there is no space between my crotch and his arm. None at all. I squeeze my knees and start to pull his arm off to the side of my thigh away from his head. If I have it right they tap before my back hits the ground.
I also do my arm bars slow. I'm not in a rush because if I lock up his arm near his wrist, I am getting the arm bar. Why hurry. Enjoy it. Savor it.

I’m crossing my legs so maybe it’s a knee pinching problem

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

I’m crossing my legs so maybe it’s a knee pinching problem

Crossing your feet? Don't do that. If you squeeze your knees there is no room to turn. Try it . See if it works. Let us know. Remember put the foot by his head on the ground. Tight against his head

 

[j123]

When you get the position, kick them in the face, then finish the sub.

 

[rmongler]

Turning the arm palm down largely nixes the hitchhiker escape.

 

[cakemuncher]

Pinch the knees plus this:

 

[EGDM]

Crossing your feet? Don't do that. If you squeeze your knees there is no room to turn. Try it . See if it works. Let us know. Remember put the foot by his head on the ground. Tight against his head

"Don't cross your feet for armbars" is one of those rules like "drag the arm across for triangles". It's mostly true and a good guideline for beginners, but there are also valid reasons why you'd want break it. Roger finishes most of his armbars with crossed feet. I actually prefer crossing to not. You need a specific reason why, though, and to be prepared to address the openings it creates.

If OP is losing control then I agree with your advice in his case.

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

"Don't cross your feet for armbars" is one of those rules like "drag the arm across for triangles". It's mostly true and a good guideline for beginners, but there are also valid reasons why you'd want break it. Roger finishes most of his armbars with crossed feet. I actually prefer crossing to not. You need a specific reason why, though, and to be prepared to address the openings it creates.

If OP is losing control then I agree with your advice in his case.

Agree. I feel like it's better to start with your feet uncrossed so you understand how to control the arm. As you evolve with jiu jitsu you can experiment. Personally 20 years later I generally don't cross my feet.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I like to cross my feet. I’m 145 lbs at 5’4 and my legs are very light and short. It’s very easy for me to lose position if I don’t cross my legs. Plus I watch a lot of guys in mma like pettis, mm, and even Ronda cross their feet so I figured it was ok, if not preferred in an lighter weight mma context.

I started bjj in a relson Gracie school and I was taught always to never cross my feet. So I’ve been through the reasons why for the majority of my bjj training.

I think my problem actually was the rafa video he posted. I’m breaking without controlling the wrist before I fall.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Oh ya just wanted to say you guys and especially pride 2000, EGDM, and cakemuncher have been very helpful. (Not you j123)

Thanks guys!

 

[dmwalking]

So I always get armbars on people but I can’t finish it unless I crank it. Before I would get it on whitebelts, hold the arm and slowly pull on it and they would eventually give up and tap.

Now that I get it on bluebelts and higher and train almost exclusively no gi, I can’t finish the armbar without cranking it and possibly hurting my partners arms.

They will hitchhiker, scramble, and just be very persistent and squirrelly when I’m in like step 9 of 10 to finishing the arm bar.

Am I being too nice or is my control just bad too... I feel like it’s an absolute wrap if I crank it and control the wrist, but without the hard pressure on the elbow, people are escaping.

Videos to finishing the armbar or controlling the finish position?

In competition, I'm sure your armbars will still be great at full speed. The slow controlled pressure of training does give guys those milliseconds to defend. Take this opportunity to improve your control. Personally, I don't armbar unless I'm still mounted or I have their head and arm triangled. But there are others styles of control that are great. 10th planet's "spiderweb" is a great control position for finishing the traditional armbar, for example.

 

[andrewm2211]

Cranking to finish, because that's the only way you can finish is indeed not being a cool training partner. You have an option to not injure them, but instead you are hurting them to get a gym tap.

I train with a guy who do did the same thing. He'd get a kimura grip and before establishing any solid control and giving me a chance to tap he'd just crank suddenly and hard. Just causes me to ice my shoulder , and he's not getting better at his control.

Coversly I have a respectable arm bar escapes. But higher belts sometimes get such could control I can't work my way out for a solid 5 seconds. And they slowly apply the sub , I tap long before I'm in pain.