Fighting Likely to End on the Ground... Really???

bulldogfire said:
Usually a major selling point of BJJ is that most fights end up on the ground, so defend yourself with some BJJ! It seems like if a person gets trained in some art, fighting system, etc. to the point that the person becomes proficient in the basics I listed above that BJJ would be more of an "if" it happens you go to the ground instead of "when" you go to the ground.

Oh and not meaning this to turn into people practicing BJJ for love of the art vs self-defense vs sport.
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actually it was Gracie Jiu Jitsu that claimed it.

something like 95% of street fights end up on the ground.

It is not like I am gonna go in the streets and take stats on a friday night outside the night clubs.

Basically, back in 94 everyone was happy doing karate chops in the air hoping that one strike would ko your opponent.

Until this skinny dude chocked out those dudes in no hold barred fights held in a cage.
 
Chute Stomp said:
The funny thing is, with the rise of the UFC it seems more and more fights are going to the ground, even they don't know what the hell they are doing once it goes there. A lot of the fights I've seen recently, people seem to have a vague idea that "mount" is a great position to be in. Of course, they lose it pretty fast and get rolled over. Then roll around a bit more.
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True that. I think it was Stephan Kesting that said the time he saw a couple of homeless people fighting, and tone of them tried to aply guilotine from the guard was when he became truly aware of how mainstream MMA had become.
 
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I'm not sure what the average age on here is, but I'm surprised that most have to go to you tube to know what happens in a street fight. It seems a fight broke out every week in my highschool (graduated in 99). I can't remember one lasting more than 10-15 seconds that didn't go to the ground. Isshin Ryu karate, kung fu, tae kwon do, and boxing all represented and all went to the ground.
 
Turtlepawah said:
True that. I think it was Stephan Kesting that said the time he saw a couple of homeless people fighting, and tone of them tried to aply guilotine from the guard was when he became truly aware of how mainstream MMA had become.
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You might be thinking of Keenan's interview with Kesting where Keenan said in Hawaii he saw a homeless bloke trying to armbar another.
 
lechien said:
actually it was Gracie Jiu Jitsu that claimed it.

something like 95% of street fights end up on the ground.
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Yes, Rorion liked to use that statistic in his marketing a lot. In the classic 1989 Playboy article, it states "Rorion believes that since most real fights end up on the ground 90 percent of the time, Gracie jujitsu is the most devastating of all martial arts." That increased another 5% four years later, when one of Rorion's students, Rod Machado, said about 35 minutes into the broadcast of UFC 1 that “95% of the fights, according to PD (police department) studies, end up on the ground”.

In 2007, Chris Leblanc wrote an article looking into the specifics of those 'PD studies', which purports to reveal the real stats:

Chris Leblanc said:
The statistics provided here are quoted directly from the ASLET (American Society of Law Enforcement Training) pamphlet for their July 1997 Use of Force Training Seminar. The training was presented in Los Angeles by Sergeant Greg Dossey, Sergeant John Sommers, and Officer Steve Uhrig of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD). It includes a description of the study and methodology used in investigating Use of Force incidents by LAPD. [...]

The report concluded: “Nearly two thirds of the 1988 altercations (62%) ended with the officer and subject on the ground with the officer applying a joint lock and handcuffing the subject.”

Given this, it is better put that the LAPD data says when officers physically fought with suspects (versus simply encountering minor resistance or non-compliance which required a minor use of force, but did not escalate into an altercation), 95% of the time those fights took one of five patterns, and 62% of those five types of altercations ended up with the officer and subject on the ground with the officer locking and handcuffing the suspect.

After this report was published, LAPD instituted a program that included training in ground control skills, which in turn were based on modern judo and jujutsu grappling skills specially adapted for law enforcement.
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It just seems to me that it's not the best idea if involved in a fight to automatically go in with the mindset "yep, I'mma going to fall to the ground." I would think an active thought of, "I stay on my feet." would be better. When I do standup I'm always being reminded (from myself or others) of my base and footwork. If I was placed into a clinch, why not knee them off before the takedown happens? I see in these videos they are all grabbing each other and get locked up and only once in a while will I see a knee or an elbow thrown. They are so busy holding on. Even a headbutt to their nose or jaw (if one opponent is shorter). Why not knee, elbow, judo throw... hey that rhymes!... the person to the ground?

I totally get that "ground happens"... that's why I started BJJ. Not so sure if it is "inevitable." BJJ for me is more of a back up if in the street...

Plus, I'm not one of those fight to the death types... I just want to leave, so if a few kicks, punches, elbows, and I got space to run. I'm disengaging and getting out!
 
look at the UFC great stand up guys cant always dictate it. Shit happens in a fight and there are just to many wrestlers in the world
 
bulldogfire said:
Ok, so I have heard soooo much about fights ending up on the ground... 75, 90% of fights. Seems like since most average joes and janes don't know anything about fighting other than flailing arms, bouncing around, grabbing hair (for the ladies usually), etc. that it more ends up on the ground due to them not knowing proper base, footwork, knowing how to defend a takedown attempt, etc. than anything.

If you had an untrained average person against a trained person who did have the proper footwork, stance, base, takedown defense, etc. seems like that statistic would probably go way down, especially in a one on one fight. Therefore, it seems like a truly trained person could dictate whether the fight went to the ground or not and not so much of the ground being "inevitable."

Thoughts?
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So where the fuck were you when they aired UFC1?
 
jesus christ this debate is so dumb

If you know how to fight (striking and grappling, need to be well rounded, I think we've settled that) then your fight isn't going to resemble the "normal" street fight with two assholes winging at eachother and falling down, because you should be able to do whatever you want to them
 
What if you had an untrained person against Anderson Silva? Would the odds go down then?

What if it was an untrained person vs GSP, and GSP was determined to keep the fight on the feet? I bet the statistics would go down then, too!
 
sb413197 said:
A lot of people feel punching isn't a good thing to do on teh streetz - break your hands, get bites on your hands, get sued etc etc
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in teh streets, there is no foolproof way of preventing injury.
 
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