Crime Ferris Mueller's Election Off (Mueller thread v. 24)

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Joe said:
Manafort must either think he's getting pardoned or hiding something big. Either way sounds like we are due some serious action.
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At this point, the only plausible explanation is that Paul enjoys prison buttsex.
 
bobgeese said:
At this point, the only plausible explanation is that Paul enjoys prison buttsex.
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He's going to end up stabbing someone at his eventual parole hearing, I bet.
 
Diamond Jim said:




See ya later Paulie.
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1. Cooperate with FBI:
a. Be given a shot of radioactive poison
b. Family lives in fear for life​
2. Lie to FBI:
a. Live
b. Family taken care of for life​

We'll see how it goes but there's a chance Manafort's testimony is completely useless and perhaps hindered the investigation.
 
ocean size said:
Ain't nobody taking care of his family. Homeboy just Muellered himself.
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Well if he has been lying then Mueller can count him out as far as cooperating on the stand- not that the testimony of a liar would be of much use.

He's going to jail, but he may very well prove his masters proud in derailing the investigation. Remains to be seen who this benefits the most as it can go either way.
 
xcvbn said:
Well if he has been lying then Mueller can count him out as far as cooperating on the stand- not that the testimony of a liar would be of much use.

He's going to jail, but he may very well prove his masters proud in derailing the investigation. Remains to be seen who this benefits the most as it can go either way.
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Yeah if he lied and he knew Mueller would know he's lying, he's either more afraid of Russians than years of prison or expecting a pardon - plausible but far from certain. Could certainly be a blow to the investigation. If he didn't know Mueller would know he's lying, or wasn't sure, Mueller might have the jump. Odds on Mueller bluffing? maybe a bit more remote, the bluff wouldn't have needed to go to the media to straighten out Manafort - unless it was also intended for other investigation targets.
 
Witness tampering and now violating his plea deal.
 
Lots of interesting developments.

Trump and Manafort were coordinating their defenses with a joint defense agreement. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/trump-manafort-russia-mueller/570187/

Mueller recently asked for an extension in the Manafort sentencing proceedings.

Trump's stooge Whitaker comes in and, a few days later, Trump's team finally submits their written answers.

Mueller drops the bombshell that he can prove Manafort has been lying to them.

What does it all mean?

Marcy Wheeler has some interesting thoughts.



This is a mini-bench-trial of the collusion facts. If the court grants it, we will see the whole show, right here, and IIRC under the clear-and-convincing standard (for violating plea) rather than reasonable doubt.
Mueller has proposed a way to put Donald Trump, and the facts about Donald Trump, on trial without the slightest chance of executive privilege being asserted, successfully or unsuccessfully.
The judge, not a jury, will make these findings. So they will be spelled out on the open public record, not hidden in the jury’s black box where they can’t be used. And you can be sure Mueller wouldn’t ask for such a hearing unless he had rock-solid evidence on each Manafort lie.
“But,” you cry. “Can’t Trump just deny everything? He lies all the time!” Ha. Ah ha ha. Oh ho ho hee hee. Sure, but that would WAIVE EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE. Damn, I love ninja lawyers.
Executive privilege can only be used as a shield, not a sword. You can’t poke your head out from behind the privilege, deny that a bunch of stuff happened, then pop back behind it when subpoenaed for all the testimony and evidence and cross-examination that proves you wrong.
So basically, if the judge grants this sentencing hearing under the parameters requested, Trump has little choice but to sit on his hands while the whole case against him is tried in his absence. If he speaks up, he loses any defense to broad document and testimony subpoenas.
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https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/11/26/manafort-tests-the-theory-of-an-unpardonable-plea/

Back when Paul Manafort first entered a plea agreement, I argued the effects of it could not be pardoned away.

Here’s why this deal is pardon proof:

  1. Mueller spent the hour and a half delay in arraignment doing … something. It’s possible Manafort even presented the key parts of testimony Mueller needs from him to the grand jury this morning.
  2. The forfeiture in this plea is both criminal and civil, meaning DOJ will be able to get Manafort’s $46 million even with a pardon.
  3. Some of the dismissed charges are financial ones that can be charged in various states.
Since that time, Mueller has been busy finishing up the Roger Stone indictment, Trump has finally finished his open book test, and any owners of the property Manafort had to forfeit under the plea deal had their 30-day window to challenge the forfeiture (only the bank owning the loan on his Trump Tower condo is known to have contested the forfeiture, which means the government may already be irretrievably seizing $43 million of Manafort’s property).

Which brings us to the status report that Mueller’s team delayed long enough to get that open book test.

Paulie can’t help himself. According to Mueller’s team, he has kept lying and lying since entering the cooperation agreement.

"After signing the plea agreement, Manafort committed federal crimes by lying to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Special Counsel’s Office on a variety of subject matters, which constitute breaches of the agreement. The government will file a detailed sentencing submission to the Probation Department and the Court in advance of sentencing that sets forth the nature of the defendant’s crimes and lies, including those after signing the plea agreement herein."

As the defendant has breached the plea agreement, there is no reason to delay his sentencing herein.

"As I noted back in September, the standard the government has to prove to claim Manafort has breached his agreement is just 'good faith,' as compared to preponderance of the evidence with Rick Gates."

With Gates, the standard the government has to prove to argue he has breached his agreement is preponderance of the evidence or, in case of committing a crime, probable cause. With Manafort, the government only has to prove “good faith.”

Now, it is true that Trump can pardon Manafort (though that probably won’t happen right away). That’s the only sane explanation for Manafort doing what he did, that he is still certain he’ll be pardoned. But many of these charges can still be charged in state court.

Just about the only explanation for Manafort’s actions are that — as I suggested — Trump was happy to have Manafort serve as a mole in Mueller’s investigation.

But Mueller’s team appears to have no doubt that Manafort was lying to them. That means they didn’t really need his testimony, at all. It also means they had no need to keep secrets — they could keep giving Manafort the impression that he was pulling a fast one over the prosecutors, all while reporting misleading information to Trump that he could use to fill out his open book test. Which increases the likelihood that Trump just submitted sworn answers to those questions full of lies.

And that “detailed sentencing submission … sett[ing] forth the nature of the defendant’s crimes and lies” that Mueller mentions in the report?

There’s your Mueller report, which will be provided in a form that Matt Whitaker won’t be able to suppress. (Reminder: Mueller included 38 pages of evidence along with Manafort’s plea agreement, which I argued showed how what Manafort and Trump did to Hillary was the same thing that Manafort had done to Yulia Tymoshenko.)

Update: I’ve tweaked this post since first posting it.

As I disclosed in July, I provided information to the FBI on issues related to the Mueller investigation, so I’m going to include disclosure statements on Mueller investigation posts from here on out. I will include the disclosure whether or not the stuff I shared with the FBI pertains to the subject of the post.
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Does she know what she's talking about? Or is she spinning dumb shit and fantasy, like bob Geese and Waiguran?

I know what I'm hoping for:

suNoKt9.gif
 
JosephDredd said:
Lots of interesting developments.

Trump and Manafort were coordinating their defenses with a joint defense agreement. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/trump-manafort-russia-mueller/570187/

Mueller recently asked for an extension in the Manafort sentencing proceedings.

Trump's stooge Whitaker comes in and, a few days later, Trump's team finally submits their written answers.

Mueller drops the bombshell that he can prove Manafort has been lying to them.

What does it all mean?

Marcy Wheeler has some interesting thoughts.





https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/11/26/manafort-tests-the-theory-of-an-unpardonable-plea/



Does she know what she's talking about? Or is she spinning dumb shit and fantasy, like bob Geese and Waiguran?

I know what I'm hoping for:

suNoKt9.gif
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That all seems too perfect and dramatically correct for it to play out IRL like that. It would be a doozy though, lol. Most interesting part is Trump and Manafort having a joint defense agreement.

It seems like the President wouldn't need that! /sarcasm
 
xcvbn said:
Well if he has been lying then Mueller can count him out as far as cooperating on the stand- not that the testimony of a liar would be of much use.

He's going to jail, but he may very well prove his masters proud in derailing the investigation. Remains to be seen who this benefits the most as it can go either way.
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Why would the Russian government take care of an American in the US prison system? It would be much easier to kill him in prison and tie up loose ends, which is what a KGB man like Putin would see as more pragmatic.
 
Imagine if obama had over 20 indictments during his tenure and how bad the deplorables would beat their fat wives to let off some steam.
 
It's going to be strange looking back on these events with hindsight.
 
hillelslovak87 said:
Why would the Russian government take care of an American in the US prison system? It would be much easier to kill him in prison and tie up loose ends, which is what a KGB man like Putin would see as more pragmatic.
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Other people who know things are less likely to turn on you if you will take care of them.
 
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