Feminism Ruining Movies and Television

[panamaican]

Maybe that's why now days it seems like women on the street always try to challenge and fight guys 1v1 because of their perspective.

What are you referring to? It's significant change of topic.

 

[Seano]

Well, it is bullshit. In order to be oppressed someone has to be oppressing you.
You can't have someone claiming victim status without them pointing their finger at someone.

 

[panamaican]

Bull.

Shit.

While that's certainly pithy, I'm going to wait for you to respond to the entire post.

 

[Seano]

While that's certainly pithy, I'm going to wait for you to respond to the entire post.

I stopped reading after the first line. I have no desire to revisit. I did respond to another poster about it.

 

[splendica]

Well, it is bullshit. In order to be oppressed someone has to be oppressing you.
You can't have someone claiming victim status without them pointing their finger at someone.

I agree with you 110% brother.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Well, that was part of "the joke".
I don't think people actually believe this movie is one of the best in the last 10 years.
But the joke was that if people would believe that. The issue would be with peoples taste in movies, not feminism.

Of course, it might not have been funny. But if I had used favorite instead of best the joke would have been even worse.
Because something could be your favorite without being the best.
I was just trying to be funny anyway. If I would try to save face I wouldn't talk about "Untermenschen".
That is not exactly the kind of talk that can save my face.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

It's called breaking balls, man.

Ahh lost in context. I knew deep down you didn't hate me.

 

[Bloodworth]

Feminist , lgbq, Muslims and illegals non stop call and harass Hollywood and media.
More gay roles
More women roles

It's non stop with the writing of letters, non stop with the calling.

I mentioned a while ago about a friend who made a movie.
Low budget that gained some interest

The More Popular the Movie Gets, The More Calls He Gets Asking ABOUT gay characters. Where are they, why is the cast 90% white.

 

[King of Fists]

While personally I'm not a big fan of female action leads, the truth is pretty much all action movies stretch the truth to an absurd degree. A small male beating up a roomful of thugs with flashy kung fu moves isn't much more believable than a female doing it. The fact that the gender of the protagonist bothers you more than the scenario and content is pretty laughable.

"It's cool if this small old man disarms and kills 20 highly trained soldiers using nothing but his belt buckle but if a female does it, that's where I draw the line!"

 

[squeezewax]

So many people have no idea what feminism is, and they blame it for so many things.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

I love me a bad-ass chick.

Mmmmm...

 

[panamaican]

I stopped reading after the first line. I have no desire to revisit. I did respond to another poster about it.

Well, that's disheartening. I assumed your comment was based on careful reading and analysis of what I wrote. And that "bull shit" was premised on some well reasoned counter argument.

But, then again, I should have just looked at your username and ignored you like I usually do.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This is the exact argument that kooks on the other side make. Everyone thinks that their perspective is just the default but other perspectives are propaganda. I'd say that if people find fiction that upsets their perspective to be too difficult to bear, they should read reviews beforehand and just avoid it.

This is so true and strange. Every time a different perspective is presented, people insist that there's something nefarious of it's presentation. As if no one else's perspective should be presented.

It's a fascinating window into how uncomfortable people are with different perspectives. They really struggle with being exposed to perspectives that don't mirror their own.

The problem is that sometimes this new perspective is just what's politically popular so poor writers try to make up for their poor writing by using the most politically correct archetypes instead of actually challenging their viewer with something they haven't seen before.

The archetype of the strong independent action star in cinema is one of the worst examples of this sort of politically correct archetype in recent memory. Here's an interesting video that discusses some reasons why and I'll link to one that I think is particularly salient

So basically people confuse poor execution of certain ideas like "muh strong independent womyn" and unfortunately extrapolate from that a political motive when its in fact the market attempting to react to what it hears is demand for a certain kind of film but because of various constraints and incentives they're having a hard time delivering on something that will properly satisfy that demand, at least when it comes to big budget action flicks.

 

[panamaican]

The problem is that sometimes this new perspective is just what's politically popular so poor writers try to make up for their poor writing by using the most politically correct archetypes instead of actually challenging their viewer with something they haven't seen before.

The archetype of the strong independent action star in cinema is one of the worst examples of this sort of politically correct archetype in recent memory. Here's an interesting video that discusses some reasons why and I'll link to one that I think is particularly salient

So basically people confuse poor execution of certain ideas like "muh strong independent womyn" and unfortunately extrapolate from that a political motive when its in fact the market attempting to react to what it hears is demand for a certain kind of film but because of various constraints and incentives they're having a hard time delivering on something that will properly satisfy that demand, at least when it comes to big budget action flicks.

I think there's some validity there. What I was going to say is that there are only a few archetypes that are generally appealing and you can only tell the same story so many ways. So writers are frequently looking for a variant that can inject something new.

Often they do this by say "What if such and such was a woman/black/gay?" Before we had more minorities in the acting space, they'd do it by making the guy blind or deaf or crippled or with some kind of eccentricity that impacts the work. Anything to vary the main character without losing the core archetype.

It's just the nature of story telling. But like you note, when you combine it with poor execution and a subset of extra sensitive people who don't like looking "weak" (as the video describes it) then people apply the "it's all about PC" as their explanation.

 

[jimbob27]

I love me a bad-ass chick.

Mmmmm...

Me too. It's a shame Hollywood haven't done anything decent with that character or actress since the 90s. She turned down a part in the third movie.... the one with the female terminator who came equipped with inflatable tits.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think there's some validity there. What I was going to say is that there are only a few archetypes that are generally appealing and you can only tell the same story so many ways. So writers are frequently looking for a variant that can inject something new.

Often they do this by say "What if such and such was a woman/black/gay?" Before we had more minorities in the acting space, they'd do it by making the guy blind or deaf or crippled or with some kind of eccentricity that impacts the work. Anything to vary the main character without losing the core archetype.

It's just the nature of story telling. But like you note, when you combine it with poor execution and a subset of extra sensitive people who don't like looking "weak" (as the video describes it) then people apply the "it's all about PC" as their explanation.

Problem with that is that it comes off as a very superficial tweak on beloved archetypes so in a sense there's already a higher standard set by the viewer who would prefer the same ole action hero and more often than not writers fail miserably.

One problem I think is that many writers are afraid to write women as different than men so a strong women in their mind is one who kicks ass just like the men. This is one reason why I was initially excited for Suicide Squad. I heard Amanda Waller was in it and played by Viola Davis(who is an amazing actress) and she's the type of female character that doesn't usually physically kick ass but still has power and exerts it. Unfortunately I heard the film was shit and I already don't care enough for most cape flicks so I ended avoiding that one...

But even still, the female action star can be done well. The video mentioned a great example in La Femme Nikita and why it worked. I think most guys would prefer a character like Nikita who is an underdog against the men she faces over Black Widow who effortlessly emasculates the cannon fodder males thrown at her. Even when it comes to male characters the underdog status helps but it seems poor writers are afraid of presenting women as flawed and weak because "muh gurl powah" so they fall back on the Black Widow type characters instead of taking a chance on a Nikita-like one.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The problem is that sometimes this new perspective is just what's politically popular so poor writers try to make up for their poor writing by using the most politically correct archetypes instead of actually challenging their viewer with something they haven't seen before.

The archetype of the strong independent action star in cinema is one of the worst examples of this sort of politically correct archetype in recent memory. Here's an interesting video that discusses some reasons why and I'll link to one that I think is particularly salient

So basically people confuse poor execution of certain ideas like "muh strong independent womyn" and unfortunately extrapolate from that a political motive when its in fact the market attempting to react to what it hears is demand for a certain kind of film but because of various constraints and incentives they're having a hard time delivering on something that will properly satisfy that demand, at least when it comes to big budget action flicks.

Yeah. Bad writing is bad writing. If that's the complaint, it's fine where it operates. The video makes some good points. But surely we can see that there are a lot of movies that have the exact opposite problem. So shrill "SJWs" get pissed off by those, and shrill MRAs get pissed off by what the video guy talks about. The rest of us mostly divide stuff into good or bad and just see some of that as a subset of "bad."

 

[Jack V Savage]

But even still, the female action star can be done well. The video mentioned a great example in La Femme Nikita and why it worked. I think most guys would prefer a character like Nikita who is an underdog against the men she faces over Black Widow who effortlessly emasculates the cannon fodder males thrown at her. Even when it comes to male characters the underdog status helps but it seems poor writers are afraid of presenting women as flawed and weak because "muh gurl powah" so they fall back on the Black Widow type characters instead of taking a chance on a Nikita-like one.

Another great example is Marge Gunderson. She uses her non-threateningness, smarts, empathy, and her gun to take care of business without being given essentially magic powers.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah. Bad writing is bad writing. If that's the complaint, it's fine where it operates. The video makes some good points. But surely we can see that there are a lot of movies that have the exact opposite problem. So shrill "SJWs" get pissed off by those, and shrill MRAs get pissed off by what the video guy talks about. The rest of us mostly divide stuff into good or bad and just see some of that as a subset of "bad."

I have a friend who is the sort that complains that strong female characters like Black Widow ruin movies and series. A few years ago, a different friend of mine who has the opposite feelings about strong female characters recommended a magical girl anime. I didn't take his recommendation because I figured he'd like that type of show but the chauvinist friend ended up recommending the same one.


Maybe you're a bit out of the target demo for a show like Kill la Kill but moral of the story is even someone who has a prejudice against these kinds of characters can be convinced if they're done well.

Another great example is Marge Gunderson. She uses her non-threateningness, smarts, empathy, and her gun to take care of business without being given essentially magic powers.

I have got to watch that movie.

 

[panamaican]

Problem with that is that it comes off as a very superficial tweak on beloved archetypes so in a sense there's already a higher standard set by the viewer who would prefer the same ole action hero and more often than not writers fail miserably.

One problem I think is that many writers are afraid to write women as different than men so a strong women in their mind is one who kicks ass just like the men. This is one reason why I was initially excited for Suicide Squad. I heard Amanda Waller was in it and played by Viola Davis(who is an amazing actress) and she's the type of female character that doesn't usually physically kick ass but still has power and exerts it. Unfortunately I heard the film was shit and I already don't care enough for most cape flicks so I ended avoiding that one...

But even still, the female action star can be done well. The video mentioned a great example in La Femme Nikita and why it worked. I think most guys would prefer a character like Nikita who is an underdog against the men she faces over Black Widow who effortlessly emasculates the cannon fodder males thrown at her. Even when it comes to male characters the underdog status helps but it seems poor writers are afraid of presenting women as flawed and weak because "muh gurl powah" so they fall back on the Black Widow type characters instead of taking a chance on a Nikita-like one.

And I think this is where viewers are short sighted. They are of the belief that their ownership of these characters is eternal and it's not. The owner of the content has a responsibility that's longer in duration.

My brother and I were discussing this in the context of music. I was complaining about some rehashed music that sounded better in it's original form. And my brother correctly pointed out that I was complaining because I had a historical connection to the music but that there was an entire generation of people for whom this music was brand new.

They did not have my pre-existing connection biases as to the music.

Viewers struggle with the reality their attachment to characters is temporary. The next generation has none of those preconceived expectations and can accept the characters in the new format with no hang ups.