Fedor Has The Best 'Prime' Wins

ROFL the OP; many of those guys were not "prime" at the time.

He beat Nog twice, not three times, and Nog was having his best fight against Fedor when the accidental cut stopped the fight. Fedor changed his strategy to win the third fight, but we don't know how the second one would have gone if it hadn't been for the cut.

There are 2 fighters that likely would have been elite in today's game in there- Nog and CC, and those wins were all by decision. The idea he is more of a finisher than other greats is laughable. He finished mostly lesser fighters.

Prime Fedor was great, but not the greatest.
 
Take out Sylvia. He can't be prime when he gets taken out by Ray Mercer one fight later. Also take out Goodridge for sure.

Put in Heath Herring, a game opponent who was in title contention. Semmy Schilt is also worthy of note... And first fight Coleman.

Fedor was out of prime in most of those fights. His true prime ended when he left Russian Top Team.
 

matt-serra_georges-st-pierre.gif


GOATS DON'T TAP TO STRIKES
 
-Prime Nog x3
-Prime Cro-Cop
-Prime Hunt
-Prime Arlovski
-Prime Slivia
-Prime Randleman
-Prime Goodridge


Can't see any other mma fighter who has more prime wins?

Yeah, I'd position GSP at #2.

Wasnt even close to prime Hunt, AA and Sylvia.

But you did forget prime HMC and prime Zulu. Should add them to your list.
 
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Sylvia defended 2 times. The first time was against Arlovski in a rematch from winning the title. The second was Jeff Monson.

Sure sounds like world domination to me.
You're missing Tim's first stint as champion man.

Ricco and Andrei are high quality names to have on your resume. Trying to say either of them aren't accomplished is mildly hilarious.
Both Tim and Andrei are consensus top 10 greatest HWs of all time.
 
Nog and Cro Cop are the only impressive names on that list. Hunt had ZERO grappling. Sylvia and Arlovski were never world beaters. Other ones don't even deserve mention.

GSP's mamy wins over the top dogs (in their primes) in an absolute shark tank of a division put his resume well ahead of Fedor's. GSP's resume is both more stacked and way more impeccable (having brutally avenged the only losses on it)

The WW division didn't become a "shark tank" until the WEC and Strikeforce mergers which were 2011 and late 2012/early 2013. And GSP had 4 title defenses in that span.

There's a reason why guys like Fitch, Koscheck, and Alves were top 3 in the WW division for years and it wasn't because of their talent. It was because there was so much more talent in other orgs.

And Fedor beat all the top talent in Pride, then he went and beat the top 2 UFC HW's at that time in Affliction in less than a round combined. Like who else did you want or expect him to beat at that time?
 
what about knocking out nelson? or the rothwell win? and tim sylvia was the top heavyweight in the org at the time alongside andrei. his resume isnt gonna be amazing because the top heavies were in PRIDE and the sport in general wasn't even a decade old when he was in the UFC. you acknowledged some of his skills, he just won 4 in a row and almost got a title shot when hes way over the hill, the heavy division has never been that stacked the early 2010s being the most stacked its ever been.

if he almost got a title shot 2 year ago i'd bet prime arlovski could be champ or a top contender now. do you think the top guys like stipe, werdum, jds, reem etc. are great fighters? prime arlovski is right in the mix with those guys

Fair points with the Nelson and Rothwell wins. I think that shows he is ahead of the middle-class guys (so that's a successful refutation of my "mediocre" label).

I think your point about his win streak and verge-of-title-contention needs some context though. As god-aweful as his fight with Schwab was, I've forced myself to watch it again and I really don't see how the judges scored it for Arlovski (and I was there live, cheering hard for the pitbull). His decision against Mir I also recall being dubious (another shitty fight). And I don't think Browne is an elite W (not a bad one though).

I think if you compare the beginning, middle, and ends of their careers the Werdum's, Miocic's, and do Santos's are a cut above Arlovski and their best (and I think even their lesser) versions would be favoured against the best version of Andrei. Basically, ya, I think Andrei is a solid win, but not an elite win for Fedor (as Roy and a green Big Ben were solid but not elite wins for Arlovski).
 
The WW division didn't become a "shark tank" until the WEC and Strikeforce mergers which were 2011 and late 2012/early 2013. And GSP had 4 title defenses in that span.

There's a reason why guys like Fitch, Koscheck, and Alves were top 3 in the WW division for years and it wasn't because of their talent. It was because there was so much more talent in other orgs.

And Fedor beat all the top talent in Pride, then he went and beat the top 2 UFC HW's at that time in Affliction in less than a round combined. Like who else did you want or expect him to beat at that time?

Your middle paragraph is interesting. I kind of agree with it, but I also think you're seriously underrating prime Kos and Fitch. Fitch has some great wins (a la Shields), and let's not forget that Kos took prime Hendricks to a split that I think should have gone to him.

Next you say there was so much more talent in other orgs, it just made GSP's competition look good. What talent are you speaking of? Which of those top guys in other orgs did GSP either not go on to beat or undoubtedly would have been favoured to beat had they fought (like a Paul Daley, cus I really don't think there are many of em Georges didn't vanquish).

But yes, you bring up valid points in saying that Fedor beat Pride's top HW's then beat the UFC's top 2 HW's. Just as you pointed out that GSP beat the UFC's top WW's then beat other org's top guys when they merged. Which brings us to a stalemate. If you don't consider Fedor's record past the Affliction era...but how can't you?

After dominating Pride's HW division and decimating Timmy and Andrei, the very next year is when Fedor started to get finished. Was that a simple case of a precipitous fall from his prime? Possibly (age and mileage are certainly factors). But I think him moving back overseas and finishing a string of cans (and aside from the Maldonado fight not looking, at least results-wise, much different than his Japan run) lends credence to the argument that Fedor's level of competition had something to do with it as well. A prime Big Nog (Fedor's greatest win) is inferior to a prime Werdum imo. Werdum has better BJJ, and an avalanche of credentials to back that up. And I'd take Werdum's Muy Thai over Nog's boxing. Even Dan Henderson is a p4p greater fighter than Nog imo. Fedor was finished by both, and I think it's lazy/biased to say it's exclusively because of age.

In any event, even if you want to steadfastly blame other factors, GSP has exactly half as many such blemishes in his career, and those were both brutally avenged (granted Fedor hasn't been afforded the same opportunity). Despite age and two full-blown ACL tears and reconstructions/recoveries GSP has still never shown such glaring vulnerability and weakness against an opponent of the utter shit quality as Fabio Maldonado (who is well known as a brawling punching bag with half-decent hands but no punching power).

I think my embarrassingly long-winded post shows that in the GOAT discussion they are fairly tit-for-tat. In the end I do believe the majority of GSP's opponents had better legacies, better records, and were overall p4p better fighters that the majority of Fedor's opponents. This, plus GSP's superior record against both of their top opponents (and fewer shitty performances against their weaker comp), is what makes it pretty clear-cut for GSP in my book.

To some people, it is Fedor's thrilling finishes compared to GSP's lack-lustre decisions that tips the scales in the Russian's favour. Imo this is more a symptom of the sensationalist nature of human beings than it is an indication of greatness. If current events were reported to the people in an academic, peer-reviewed, and discussed manner, all the news networks would go out of business. It'd be boring as shit. Instead news companies make tons of money because they play on the sensationalism and impressionability of human beings, rather than their higher faculties such as rationale and critical thinking (those take work).

Now I know fighting ain't the fucking news, but I do think the analogy holds some merit. If GSP completely dominates his opponent, imposing his will every minute of every round, and doesn't let his opponent do anything they wanted to; who fought the better fight? Him or Fedor who let a journeyman with a .500 record damn near break his neck before managing to finish him in spectacular fashion? I'd go with GSP. Greatness isn't always flashy and sensational. I think Floyd Mayweather is probably the best example of what I'm talking about.

But wow, I put way too much time into this post. Once I got going and thinking about everything I couldn't stop until I'd seen it through though haha.
 
The WW division didn't become a "shark tank" until the WEC and Strikeforce mergers which were 2011 and late 2012/early 2013. And GSP had 4 title defenses in that span.

There's a reason why guys like Fitch, Koscheck, and Alves were top 3 in the WW division for years and it wasn't because of their talent. It was because there was so much more talent in other orgs.

And Fedor beat all the top talent in Pride, then he went and beat the top 2 UFC HW's at that time in Affliction in less than a round combined. Like who else did you want or expect him to beat at that time?

If you don't feel like reading my novel (I wouldn't blame you), I'll simply answer your question lol. If he's as great as you're saying he is I wanted and expected him to beat Fabricio Werdum (who he lost to a mere year after his win over Arlovski you cited)
 
-Prime Nog x3
-Prime Cro-Cop
-Prime Hunt
-Prime Arlovski
-Prime Slivia
-Prime Randleman
-Prime Goodridge


Can't see any other mma fighter who has more prime wins?

Yeah, I'd position GSP at #2.
Hunt was in the middle of a six fight losing streak.
Tim Sylvia was past prime and a can
Randleman was never elite
Goodridge was never elite
Arlovski was decent
Cro Cop is another overrated can crusher
 
-Prime Nog x3
-Prime Cro-Cop
-Prime Hunt
-Prime Arlovski
-Prime Slivia
-Prime Randleman
-Prime Goodridge


Can't see any other mma fighter who has more prime wins?

Yeah, I'd position GSP at #2.
Randleman wasnt in his prime
Nether was Goodridge or Sylvia.

Nog x3 ?
 
-Prime Nog x3
-Prime Cro-Cop
-Prime Hunt
-Prime Arlovski
-Prime Slivia
-Prime Randleman
-Prime Goodridge


Can't see any other mma fighter who has more prime wins?

Yeah, I'd position GSP at #2.

Sherk
Penn
Hughes
Kos
Serra
Fitch
Alves
Shields
Hardy
Condit
Diaz
Hendricks
Bisping
and more...

They were all in their prime when they challenged him. No disrespect to Fedor, but the level of competition he has faced is nothing compared to the names GSP has beat

#1 GSP
...
the rest of the world
 
Silvia and Arlovski were top HWs and now you are doing a typical nuttgger/hater commentary trying to discredit them in hindsight. Also if you think Fedor was prime against Rogers, then any credibility had had in regards with analysing primes just went out the window.
Sylvia had lost 2 of his last 3 and in that 1 win looked like shit against Brandon Vera, Timmy was on the slide at that point of career
 
Your middle paragraph is interesting. I kind of agree with it, but I also think you're seriously underrating prime Kos and Fitch. Fitch has some great wins (a la Shields), and let's not forget that Kos took prime Hendricks to a split that I think should have gone to him.

Next you say there was so much more talent in other orgs, it just made GSP's competition look good. What talent are you speaking of? Which of those top guys in other orgs did GSP either not go on to beat or undoubtedly would have been favoured to beat had they fought (like a Paul Daley, cus I really don't think there are many of em Georges didn't vanquish).

But yes, you bring up valid points in saying that Fedor beat Pride's top HW's then beat the UFC's top 2 HW's. Just as you pointed out that GSP beat the UFC's top WW's then beat other org's top guys when they merged. Which brings us to a stalemate. If you don't consider Fedor's record past the Affliction era...but how can't you?

After dominating Pride's HW division and decimating Timmy and Andrei, the very next year is when Fedor started to get finished. Was that a simple case of a precipitous fall from his prime? Possibly (age and mileage are certainly factors). But I think him moving back overseas and finishing a string of cans (and aside from the Maldonado fight not looking, at least results-wise, much different than his Japan run) lends credence to the argument that Fedor's level of competition had something to do with it as well. A prime Big Nog (Fedor's greatest win) is inferior to a prime Werdum imo. Werdum has better BJJ, and an avalanche of credentials to back that up. And I'd take Werdum's Muy Thai over Nog's boxing. Even Dan Henderson is a p4p greater fighter than Nog imo. Fedor was finished by both, and I think it's lazy/biased to say it's exclusively because of age.

In any event, even if you want to steadfastly blame other factors, GSP has exactly half as many such blemishes in his career, and those were both brutally avenged (granted Fedor hasn't been afforded the same opportunity). Despite age and two full-blown ACL tears and reconstructions/recoveries GSP has still never shown such glaring vulnerability and weakness against an opponent of the utter shit quality as Fabio Maldonado (who is well known as a brawling punching bag with half-decent hands but no punching power).

I think my embarrassingly long-winded post shows that in the GOAT discussion they are fairly tit-for-tat. In the end I do believe the majority of GSP's opponents had better legacies, better records, and were overall p4p better fighters that the majority of Fedor's opponents. This, plus GSP's superior record against both of their top opponents (and fewer shitty performances against their weaker comp), is what makes it pretty clear-cut for GSP in my book.

To some people, it is Fedor's thrilling finishes compared to GSP's lack-lustre decisions that tips the scales in the Russian's favour. Imo this is more a symptom of the sensationalist nature of human beings than it is an indication of greatness. If current events were reported to the people in an academic, peer-reviewed, and discussed manner, all the news networks would go out of business. It'd be boring as shit. Instead news companies make tons of money because they play on the sensationalism and impressionability of human beings, rather than their higher faculties such as rationale and critical thinking (those take work).

Now I know fighting ain't the fucking news, but I do think the analogy holds some merit. If GSP completely dominates his opponent, imposing his will every minute of every round, and doesn't let his opponent do anything they wanted to; who fought the better fight? Him or Fedor who let a journeyman with a .500 record damn near break his neck before managing to finish him in spectacular fashion? I'd go with GSP. Greatness isn't always flashy and sensational. I think Floyd Mayweather is probably the best example of what I'm talking about.

But wow, I put way too much time into this post. Once I got going and thinking about everything I couldn't stop until I'd seen it through though haha.

Fitch and Koscheck had very underwhelming wins while being ranked in the top 3. Fitch beat Chris Wilson the fight before he fought GSP and then Gono after the title fight. Koscheck fought Paulo Thiago and got finished by him. They rarely fought other top 10 guys and when they did, they lost. Fitch almost lost to Erick Silva...

And Fedor was dominant at HW for 10 years. There's a reason you barely see 5-10 fight win streaks at HW and for Fedor to have a 31 fight win streak, his "loss" was bullshit, against guys who were usually bigger than him is the most impressive thing in MMA history.
 
Hunt was in the middle of a six fight losing streak.
Tim Sylvia was past prime and a can
Randleman was never elite
Goodridge was never elite
Arlovski was decent
Cro Cop is another overrated can crusher
Randkeman was alite but for a very short time, always dangerous but very beatable
 
Fedor also has the most dominating wins in his prime against prime opponents (Jones killed out of prime Shogun, Machida, Rampage etc.). I think Jones beat TRT Vitor though(?), which is like 2 wins.
 
-Prime Nog x3
-Prime Cro-Cop
-Prime Hunt
-Prime Arlovski
-Prime Slivia
-Prime Randleman
-Prime Goodridge


Can't see any other mma fighter who has more prime wins?

Yeah, I'd position GSP at #2.
Lmao not even close

Gsp

Prime Hughes x2
Prime bj x2
That right there beats yours
Prime shields
Prime Diaz
Prime condit
Prime sherk
Prime Fitch
Prime juiced Hendricks
Prime juiced alves
It’s not even close
Some of these guys were on 10 fight plus streaks
Bj 2 division champ (twice)
Hughes 9x champ (twice)
Shields 185 champ SF who beat hendo who beat fedor
Diaz 170 sf champ
Condit ufc champ
Serra ufc champ
Hendricks ufc champ
Sherk ufc champ
Fitch wsof champ who cleaned out 170 at one point in the ufc


I hate these threads about overrated fedor

He lost to hendo and Maldonado don’t fuck with me we all know who really won that fight.
 
Prime Nog and CC are 2 of the scariest fighters to fight in MMA and the way Fedor beat them made it that much more impressive.
 
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