Federal Appeals Judge Alex Kozinski Accused Of Sexual Harassment

[Cubo de Sangre]

Ah, come on if you show someone porn during work hours in your office you should be fucking fired.

There's quite a few variables so I'm not sure it's clearly such a hard and fast rule. For a judge though it certainly sounds inappropriate.

 

[second sight]

Ah, come on if you show someone porn during work hours in your office you should be fucking fired.
Especially when you are a judge. Because you are obviously not good at judging situations.

remember all the pentagon employees caught with child porn on their WORK computers

 

[snakedafunky]

There's quite a few variables so I'm not sure it's clearly such a hard and fast rule. For a judge though it certainly sounds inappropriate.

Yeah true, I mean if you work in an office for a small construction company and you show your workmates some porn (assume your Boss has no problem) it's not a big deal.
But if you are the Boss 30 years older and shows your subordinates porn, ask them if it turns them on while a government employee should be firing reason IMO.

 

[floivanus]

Meh, these accusations are getting old, anyone with zero proof can accuse any celebrity/politician they don't like and get them removed.


Which one of you is going to accuse VP pence of the gay secks... he's worse than trump remember?

 

[HomerThompson]

Folks want to downplay stuff like this ore try to role reversal it and say "If my female boss called me in to look at porn I wouldn't care" or "If there was a casting couch I'd gladly succumb for a promotion" but what if it wasn't a female boss. What if you boss was homosexual and was calling you into his office to show you gay porn to see your reaction, or talked about imaging you exercising naked or always pestering you for dates and claiming he knew you really were gay too and liked him. Or offered you a promotion to fellate him?

If your reaction is anything other than "I wouldn't care, I'd just tell him no and keep working there" or "I'd quit and just get another job" than your reaction is what these woman are feeling. They can't "fill the room with uppercuts" or "threaten to kick his ass" to make him stop.

Or put your mother or sister or daughter into these workplaces and harassment situations you think is a witchhunt now.

 

[Lord Coke]

I've worked in chambers, and have friends who have worked in chambers. Being friendly or even friends with a judge is normal. The behavior described isn't.

I even have a friend who watched porn with her judge. But that was as part of a case, and the judge was careful not to make it any more uncomfortable than it was going to be. And, like Zankou noted, Kozinski doesn't have a reputation for being a friend to his clerks. The folks I knew who were looking at that level of clerkship were warned about him (not about sexual harassment, just about his chambers being unpleasant for most people).

Also, I don't ask my friends to watch porn with me and then grill them about it.

I don't think impeachment is appropriate, but I wouldn't cry about a reprimand from the judicial council either, especially after that weaselly apology letter.

It probably deserves a reprimand. Okay I'll be honest with you. Kozinski wrote me a kick ass concurrence earlier in the year so he currently has a soft spot in my heart. He basically was you guys lose this time but here is how to win next go round. So I wish him the best.
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2017/05/05/14-16514.pdf

 

[MilesAbove]

More likely: In any given workspace there's a creep or two OR Women are just attention whores that want to point fingers?

I've got a neat way to suss this out.... if you think it's the latter option, you're probably eluded to in the former category.

 

[Quipling]

@alanb

Bunch of 9th circuit clerks and two externs came out with kozinski stories in the last couple days some of which are really creepy. One of them is Dahlia Lithwick, who describes conduct even as she was reporting on the court in her 50s. Another person turned down a promised pipeline to a Scotus clerkship rather than work for him.

The big news today is that "one or more" of his current clerks just resigned. Supposedly three of four.

(slate, ATL, and chambers gossip again)

 

[Lord Coke]

@alanb

Bunch of 9th circuit clerks and two externs came out with kozinski stories in the last couple days some of which are really creepy. One of them is Dahlia Lithwick, who describes conduct even as she was reporting on the court in her 50s. Another person turned down a promised pipeline to a Scotus clerkship rather than work for him.

The big news today is that "one or more" of his current clerks just resigned. Supposedly three of four.

(slate, ATL, and chambers gossip again)

How many clerks do Circuit judges typically have?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Or don't be a scumbag who shows porn to anybody at your workplace let alone subordinates when you're a highly respected and ranking official.

Don't talk about you co-worker exercising naked and encourage others to do so. That is workplace sexual harassment. In the past that would be a HR visit and some training courses - but we're talking about elected officials and very powerful people who absolutely should know better doing this because they think they can.

This guy likely did this for years and got away with it but he's finally getting called on his shit.

Where is the evidence he actually did it? Or are accusations good enough for you?

 

[Quipling]

How many clerks do Circuit judges typically have?

4, though one or two might be career clerks. I've never heard of more than 4, except temporarily if another judge passed away.

District judges have 2-3. Courts budget for 2+ an administrative assistant, but some swap the administrative assistant for a career clerk. A few years ago some district judges managed to get an extra to help deal with the flood of habeas cases from Johnson, so I knew of a judge who had 4 briefly.

 

[Lord Coke]

Where is the evidence he actually did it? Or are accusations good enough for you?

If they try to get rid of him through impeachment he will get a chance to defend himself.

 

[ShoelessRye]

Where is the evidence he actually did it? Or are accusations good enough for you?

Six accusations from six different women is evidence and lessens the "innocent until proven guilty" in my mind, especially in the court of public opinion. I'd gladly see it taken to court and make all parties testify under oath - including the judge.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Six accusations from six different women is evidence and lessens the "innocent until proven guilty" in my mind, especially in the court of public opinion. I'd gladly see it taken to court and make all parties testify under oath - including the judge.

Number of accusers means absolutely nothing in the absense of physical evidence. Did these women come forward immediately?

 

[ShoelessRye]

Number of accusers means absolutely nothing in the absense of physical evidence. Did these women come forward immediately?

Physical evidence? Are they supposed to wear bodycams around the office? They didn't come forward because their careers were at stake. And before this tidal wave odds are they wouldn't be believed.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Physical evidence? Are they supposed to wear bodycams around the office? They didn't come forward because their careers were at stake. And before this tidal wave odds are they wouldn't be believed.

Well if you're gonna come forward years later.... wtf ya you better have SOMETHING to show lol.

 

[splendica]

It's been a witch hunt. I foretold this. I warned where this would be headed in early October when everybody was on the anti-Weinstein #metoo bandwagon.

And it could get a lot worse still. Infinitely worse.

Also, for all marginal stuff, the blowback of lifelong singleness will be quite a thing for many of the women who are overstepping lines of common sense.

 

[splendica]

No, almost nobody saw this coming. Go read the threads in October. Virtually nobody saw this coming.

I'm going to be a bit partisan here. Most far left-leaning thinkers didn't see this coming.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

And it could get a lot worse still. Infinitely worse.

Also, for all marginal stuff, the blowback of lifelong singleness will be quite a thing for many of the women who are overstepping lines of common sense.

I hadn't even thought about it from that angle. A woman who felt sexually harassed but didnt stand up for herself until years later certainly would be undatable to me.

 

[splendica]

I hadn't even thought about it from that angle. A woman who felt sexually harassed but didnt stand up for herself until years later certainly would be undatable to me.

I think it's the bitterness I sense from many who's fairy tale didn't turn out so are now wielding their last gasps of power against figures of patriarchy in their distant past. Bitterness is a very scary thing.