Fact: Ryron and Rener Gracie are the best dudes in Jiu Jitsu

[ultimateriley-o]

The first, and main, problem I have with online ONLY training is you that you don't get an accurate sense of how they feel when rolling; how effective their gripping is, how active/responsive their hips are, where their base is centered, how smooth the transition is, how they react to adversity, their timing.. there's so many things that you can't get even close to the full scope of without hands-on drilling and rolling.

So for example you might watch someone and see that a grip is in the wrong place, but a grip can be in the right place and still be ineffective to the purpose it's supposed to serve, which both the student and teacher are likely to miss unless the student rolls against someone competent while the teacher watches. Two white belts who have never rolled before are incapable of providing decent feedback.

The second big problem I have with it is you have people repping incredibly imperfect reps without a teacher there correcting issues. You're drilling bad technique into your body, and the longer you do that, the longer it takes to unlearn it.

 

[yetanother]

They made a video trying to profit of the New Years LI rape (trying to sell their crap jitsu because the sport jiu jitsu gym atmosphere encourage raping...) IMHO that qualifies them morally as turds.
They are utter crap at teaching people jiu jitsu too, there is a video where 3! of there students get tapped by on of the turd brothers at once.
If I was a couch I would be ashamed if by students sucks so much rather then post a video to brag how awesome I am.
If you can't tap someone out with 2 of your buddies you have zero skill and in self defence you would be choked out by a raccoon.

 

[yetanother]

Maybe because most of the people that walk through their doors want to learn self defense and not necessarily compete

I never wanted to learn self defence just get tougher and learn how to beat up and rag doll people.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

That's not why Americans suck at soccer. Americans suck at soccer because our best athletes go into other sports, and because the formal systems which you're so disparaging which produce elite talent in other countries don't exist in the US. If you're a soccer fan, you probably know that clubs like AC Barcelona literally have clubs + schools for teenagers where they rigorously assess their progress, give them great coaching, and generally run a factory for creating stars. That's how you produce great people, it's the same reason almost all the top competitors in BJJ come from one of 4 teams. The formal systems for nurturing talent are really, really important. Like I said in an earlier post it's great to have online resources, but in terms of advancing through a well thought out curriculum with continuous coaching and correction of your mistakes a real coach is irreplaceable. And that process is the only one which will produce consistent, quality belt ranks.

I do agree that belt ranks shouldn't be the reason you train, but even in sports where there are no ranks as such like boxing or Muay Thai all the best people still come from elite gyms, and that's not an accident. I don't know of any self taught Lumpinee or Ring Mag champs. Coaching matters, and online isn't going to get you to the the top.

The FC Barcelona Academy, and the like throughout the world are recruiting kids. It is mostly for the benefit of the professional team sponsors, and the owners.. The competition is very cutthroat, and very stiff. Kids get weeded out all the time. Is that what BJJ is suppose to be about only? Is BJJ not meant to be about recreation, and only for those who plan on making a living by fighting for money?

 

[Uchi Mata]

The FC Barcelona Academy, and the like throughout the world are recruiting kids. It is mostly for the benefit of the professional team sponsors, and the owners.. The competition is very cutthroat, and very stiff. Kids get weeded out all the time. Is that what BJJ is suppose to be about only? Is BJJ not meant to be about recreation, and only for those who plan on making a living by fighting for money?

No, but you said the US sucked at soccer because it didn't have enough kids just screwing around playing it. That's what I was responding to. In any case, if all you want to do is mess around with BJJ, why would rank even be an issue? Like I've said several times, I have no issue with people learning using online resources, even if that's all they ever do just messing around with their buddies in a garage somewhere. But rank still means something in BJJ, and if you want to earn it, you need a knowledgeable upper belt (preferably a black belt) who can really assess your progress on an ongoing basis and ensure you're ready beyond just having a working PayPal account.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

No, but you said the US sucked at soccer because it didn't have enough kids just screwing around playing it. That's what I was responding to. In any case, if all you want to do is mess around with BJJ, why would rank even be an issue? Like I've said several times, I have no issue with people learning using online resources, even if that's all they ever do just messing around with their buddies in a garage somewhere. But rank still means something in BJJ, and if you want to earn it, you need a knowledgeable upper belt (preferably a black belt) who can really assess your progress on an ongoing basis and ensure you're ready beyond just having a working PayPal account.

fair enough

 

[jack36767]

The FC Barcelona Academy, and the like throughout the world are recruiting kids. It is mostly for the benefit of the professional team sponsors, and the owners.. The competition is very cutthroat, and very stiff. Kids get weeded out all the time. Is that what BJJ is suppose to be about only? Is BJJ not meant to be about recreation, and only for those who plan on making a living by fighting for money?

You keep moving the goalposts or obviously deliberately misunderstanding. He wasn't talking about exclusity. And what does those clubs recruiting or having a well coached development team have to do with wether or not people do something like soccer for Recreation.

Furthermore, you show your ignorance (ignorance, not stupidity I'm using that word for a reason) of the structure of high level athletics in the US, and in the world actually, if you think more or less kids playing soccer in the street is the reason for and the solution to the US struggling in a sport it barely cares about. In fact a big problem US soccer fans have in their thinking is how much they underestimate the pure athleticism of the worlds top soccer players for reasons similar to bjj dogma which I won't get into.

In fact, if somehow magically overnight in the US, the coaches, coaching trees and development, developmental systems for athletes, financial incentives,and most important.. quality of athlete that normally goes into football and basketball in the US.. the United States soccer team would top 4 in less than ten years. The issues are institutional not how many mediocre athletes are playing with their friends.

Be sure to sound hip and do things like saying jacket rather than gi

 

[yetanother]

The little one is the way Ryron acted like he proved some point by not getting tapped by Galvao at the first Metamoris.

I think you misunderstand the point he was proving. For a lot of people not getting tapped in training is a huge victory. The target audience doesn't care that he would get scored on (they don't compete) or just die from strikes in a real fight (the might train for "self defense" but fight don't tend to happen if you aren't poor or stupid or work as a prison guard etc.)

He proved that he can show how to avoid getting tapped by better people in your gym.
Ryron faced an incredibly superior grappler and wasn't in a real danger of being submitted.
Avoid getting tapped add in a few excuses a half assed foot lock attempt and a bunch of bullshit and you can feel good about the roll.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

No, but you said the US sucked at soccer because it didn't have enough kids just screwing around playing it. That's what I was responding to. In any case, if all you want to do is mess around with BJJ, why would rank even be an issue? Like I've said several times, I have no issue with people learning using online resources, even if that's all they ever do just messing around with their buddies in a garage somewhere. But rank still means something in BJJ, and if you want to earn it, you need a knowledgeable upper belt (preferably a black belt) who can really assess your progress on an ongoing basis and ensure you're ready beyond just having a working PayPal account.

The US does not suck at soccer. The women's soccer team is among the best. The thing you have to realize, is much like softball, in america soccer is a girl's sport. Usually only the pre-op trannies and real women play soccer here.

 

[jack36767]

The US does not suck at soccer. The women's soccer team is among the best. The thing you have to realize, is much like softball, in america soccer is a girl's sport. Usually only the pre-op trannies and real women play soccer here.

You are being obnoxiously pedantic

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

I've met literally every "dude in Jiu-Jitsu" that exists today (all 71,891 of them), and Rener is ranked 28th while Ryron is ranked 31st on my personal list.

 

[andrewm2211]

They made a video trying to profit of the New Years LI rape (trying to sell their crap jitsu because the sport jiu jitsu gym atmosphere encourage raping...) IMHO that qualifies them morally as turds.
They are utter crap at teaching people jiu jitsu too, there is a video where 3! of there students get tapped by on of the turd brothers at once.
If I was a couch I would be ashamed if by students sucks so much rather then post a video to brag how awesome I am.
If you can't tap someone out with 2 of your buddies you have zero skill and in self defence you would be choked out by a raccoon.

Dude if you were a couch and had students at all you'd have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think you misunderstand the point he was proving. For a lot of people not getting tapped in training is a huge victory. The target audience doesn't care that he would get scored on (they don't compete) or just die from strikes in a real fight (the might train for "self defense" but fight don't tend to happen if you aren't poor or stupid or work as a prison guard etc.)

He proved that he can show how to avoid getting tapped by better people in your gym.
Ryron faced an incredibly superior grappler and wasn't in a real danger of being submitted.
Avoid getting tapped add in a few excuses a half assed foot lock attempt and a bunch of bullshit and you can feel good about the roll.

I get the point, but crowing about the point he made (to the extent he even made one) is hypocritical. If your whole orientation is self defense, then how are you okay staying on the bottom passively for most of the match? Being proud of not getting tapped when you spent the whole time on bottom is the epitome of the egocentric mindset that R&R rail against so often, because when you think about it the only time it matters that you didn't get tapped is in the gym. On the street, in an MMA fight, in competition, being on bottom the whole time means at best you lose and at worst you get seriously injured. If what you care about is not getting tapped, you've implicitly indicated that your frame of reference for victory and defeat are gym taps. Is that what Helio Gracie was about? Just don't talk out both sides of your mouth about how you approach BJJ, acting like you care about self defense and real fighting but then brag about not getting submitted in a highly controlled environment while wearing a gi in a match you spend almost entirely on the bottom. Can't have it both ways.

 

[yetanother]

If your whole orientation is self defense, then how are you okay staying on the bottom passively for most of the match?

They perfectly know what they are teaching isn't best in a fight, the might be greedy but they aren't stupid.
The unathletic self-defense crowd who are training to prevent their school yard bully from 20 years ago striking once more wouldn't like the hard training (with wrestling, stand-up training and loads of hard rolling) that would be needed to really prepare you for a fight.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

They perfectly know what they are teaching isn't best in a fight, the might be greedy but they aren't stupid.
The unathletic self-defense crowd who are training to prevent their school yard bully from 20 years ago striking once more wouldn't like the hard training (with wrestling, stand-up training and loads of hard rolling) that would be needed to really prepare you for a fight.

You are talking about people that for the most part have jobs and little time. GJJ in the beginning is geared towards the most effective short list of moves for regular ass SD situations. Not everyone wants to be an mma fighter training 3 different styles.
Fact is most people who make it through just the Gracie combatants shit are decent enough to handle a large majority of situations.

 

[mattemate]

Josh Barnett disagrees.

 

[Almighty Angus]

My instructor got his brown and black belts under world champs, but swears up and down that Rener and Ryron are best he's ever learned under.

Didnt know you trained Ed, good shit

 

[yetanother]

Fact is most people who make it through just the Gracie combatants shit are decent enough to handle a large majority of situations.

Have you seen the video of the guys who got tapped 3 on 1?
If you can't to basic strategy you aren't able to handle anything and will manage to loose in the most silly scenarios.

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

BREAKING: I've still never seen a thread on Sherdog that started with FACT that was actually factual, rather than opinion.

FACT

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

What about the teenage kickboxer with the spikey blonde hair that I think Rener or Ryron beat up in that viral vid? They were in their backyard or something. Did they ever give that kid some free lessons, or did they just discard him as an after thought?

That was Ralek. The G in a Gi. Rener and Ryron have since disowned him