Facing the center line:

KounterPunch said:
Well , good reply.
You totally answered and crossed out my questions.

:rolleyes:

My point is , you could've used any number of relevant pics (both modern and / or from the 50s 60s 70s 80s etc but instead you chose to go so far back it's almost like jumping the shark.

If just "illustrating my point" is needed , one might as well use those Homeric images from a few threads ago or pics of the pyramids in Giza.......hell , I'm sure one could find a pic of two telly tubbies facing each other like that.

To me it looks like the "perpetuate the old school is gold school" schtick .

Just my opinion ....don't ban me for it.

:icon_lol:
Click to expand...

So thus far, you've contributed nothing to the actual topic at hand, other than to nitpick the pictures posted, and bash on the "old school" stances of fighters who used their stances and abilities rather effectively.

The reason Sinister probably didn't "answer" you, is that there is nothing intelligent or worthwhile to say in response. You don't like the pictures, despite them illustrating the entire point of the thread. You also don't like the term "oldschool" because it's schticky and lame. Noted. Thanks for your startling contribution. Being that you seem fairly experienced, do you care to actually provide the other members of the forum with some sort of useful commentary about the techniques/concepts being discussed? Or are you just boosting your post count?
 
I dont know if its boosting post count so much as testing to see if I will ban him, either way I dont particularly care. Nothing about the criticism of the photos warranted a thoughtful response. There's zero to be gained by arguing about it. The ensuing actual questions and discussion are far more interesting.

P.S. - There ARE reasons why I favor bare knuckle era photos. Thats not difficult to see and those familiar with my posting know why. Though I wasnt asked about that.
 
That bought me to a question: I saw guys like Andre Ward have their front foot and back foot set a lot like a riding a skateboard. While afaik i understand it is to get a bit more reach on the jab but in all they still very much threaten and facing the centre line the entire time yes?
 
Personally, I'm pretty new to training in general. However, during MT sparring, I find that I ALWAYS get punished should I stop directly attacking the center line. By allowing my opponent to push me hard, and get me moving back, he is able to move laterally while attacking and create an extremely unfavorable angle on me whilst I'm desperately defending... not my favorite.

I'm definitely working on my footwork and positioning above all else. It's slow going.. but every single time I keep my foot point correctly, I am able to mount a more effective offense and definitely can defend myself much more effectively.
 
Boosting my post count ???
I'm 32 not 12.
An online belt denoting how many hours I haven't been pounding the P or chasing the dollar isn't particularly important to me.
I got over that years ago when I lost my brown (?) belt.

:icon_lol:

Seriously , you could reset my color to white and it wouldn't phase me the least.
It's the quality that counts....not quantity.

Also , I use the mobile site. I can't see belts / member pics / post counts etc.
I don't even know what belt Iam.

As for , banning .....that's just a 20 minute annoyance that's easily remedied with a little application and 5 bucks.


Anyways , back to the topic , I just thought it weird to post pics up of ppl who are doing almost everything wrong only to pick on the one thing that they might be possibly doing right. Especially when they're so many relevant and accurate pics you could've chosen.
To me (and I stress that part) it seems the choice was made solely because of the era those pics were taken in rather than anything else.

I agree though , the actual discussion and questions posed might be more interesting.
This was just a side observation and am not hoping to get anybody's panties in a bunch.
 
Didn't see your PS until after I just posted ^.

Why is that ?
PM me if u want or on here.
 
sinister, what's your opinion of the jab in context with the centerline? Do you think the jab should be thrown while facing their centerline or do you think it's better to get an angle before throwing it? And I'm referring to footwork angle, not angle created from stance.
 
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Yes! I've been waiting for this thread.

Sinister, my boxing coaches are obsessive with me going to my right outside their lead foot (southpaw). Personally i find I'm very successful working from inside of their foot with jabs and countering any right hands they throw since i don't have to worry about their lead hand anymore.

The main problem i have when i move to the outside is exactly what this thread is about. I take a step with my right foot to the right with the intention of pivoting my back foot around to face their centre line again. but for that brief moment they have me at a disadvantage (their foot facing my centre line, mine off).

I've been caught a few times this way, what would you suggest the best way for me to move to the outside would be? I though of moving the rear leg around first but doesn't that break a cardinal rule of footwork? (foot closest to the direction i want to go should move first to prevent feet crossing).
 
My question about the old timey pictures: it seems like a lot of them are posed pictures, similar to the pictures taken today at weigh ins. We know for the modern pics, these poses aren't how the guys look when they actually fight.

So what is your reasoning behind picking these pictures?
 
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Awesome thread, and the recent related threads have been great as well.
About the Old School Boxing "schtick" I have found this info really helpfull. My background is JKD from an isolated class of under 10 guys for 5 years. I started training at an MMA gym last september, and am trying to adapt what know to that environement.
I get owned when rolling, by almost everyone, but my kickboxing has held up pretty well. I didnt understand why it was working until coming across the old school boxing stuff on this forum. A lot of the same advice was taught in my JKD class, but with wing chun and fencing terms, but the principles are the same.
So thanks to everyone that has added their 2 cents on any of the old school boxing stuff, its been a great resource, and realy has helped me figure out how to use the stuff I learned.
 
you can still face your opponent without having your lead toe pointing at his centerline right? would the concept be the same?
 
DuckandCover said:
Yes! I've been waiting for this thread.

Sinister, my boxing coaches are obsessive with me going to my right outside their lead foot (southpaw). Personally i find I'm very successful working from inside of their foot with jabs and countering any right hands they throw since i don't have to worry about their lead hand anymore.

The main problem i have when i move to the outside is exactly what this thread is about. I take a step with my right foot to the right with the intention of pivoting my back foot around to face their centre line again. but for that brief moment they have me at a disadvantage (their foot facing my centre line, mine off).

I've been caught a few times this way, what would you suggest the best way for me to move to the outside would be? I though of moving the rear leg around first but doesn't that break a cardinal rule of footwork? (foot closest to the direction i want to go should move first to prevent feet crossing).
Click to expand...

I'll let sinister give you his answer but if you look at this part here it looks to me like in your attempt to get to his side, you actually gave him an angle. You are facing away from him while he is facing you, in your attempt to get to his side you gave you exactly what you were looking for, witch is having him face away from you while you are facing him.

This should never happen, you have two choices here, it's either you are always facing them and get your angle through some kind of footwork or trick, or you do some defensive manoeuver like slip their punch and do something like get to the outside of their arm, in this moment they can't threaten you so it's okay to not be facing them for a very brief moment, at this point you can counter to their body or whatever, but you can't just try to get an angle, face off away from them and let them face you, like I said if you're going to do that, facing away from them I mean, you need to make damn sure they can't hit you in the process, there has to be a real good reason why you're doing that.
 
Makes alotta sense for boxing.

I still don't see how it can work for Muay Thai.

Maybe Im just dumb
 
Bay Area said:
Makes alotta sense for boxing.

I still don't see how it can work for Muay Thai.

Maybe Im just dumb
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If I understand correctly all sinister is really saying here is make sure your lead foot is aligned with your opponent's body. That's not just in martial arts, that's true in sports period, if you want to line up a shot in basketball your lead foot has to be facing the basket, if you wan to make a shot in tennis your lead foot has to be facing the spot you want to aim for, the only way your body can perfectly align itself is if your lead foot is pointing exactly in that direction.

That's the same thing in muay thai, for you to do a roundhouse kick, I think it's your non kicking foot that becomes your stabilizer and that's basically what needs to be aligned with your opponent. These are just basics of movement he's talking about here.
 
yodave said:
If I understand correctly all sinister is really saying here is make sure your lead foot is aligned with your opponent's body. That's not just in martial arts, that's true in sports period, if you want to line up a shot in basketball your lead foot has to be facing the basket, if you wan to make a shot in tennis your lead foot has to be facing the spot you want to aim for, the only way your body can perfectly align itself is if your lead foot is pointing exactly in that direction.

That's the same thing in muay thai, for you to do a roundhouse kick, I think it's your non kicking foot that becomes your stabilizer and that's basically what needs to be aligned with your opponent. These are just basics of movement he's talking about here.
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hell yeah!!! oldschool boxing is the answer to all your needs!!!!oldschool boxing for basketball!!! oldschool boxing for tennis!!!! oldschool boxing for soccer!!! oldschool boxing for swimming!!! oldschool boxing for rugby!!!!!!!! oldschool boxing for wrestling!!!! oldschool boxing for bjj!!!!!!!!

:icon_chee
 
sourdiesel209 said:
hell yeah!!! oldschool boxing is the answer to all your needs!!!!oldschool boxing for basketball!!! oldschool boxing for tennis!!!! oldschool boxing for soccer!!! oldschool boxing for swimming!!! oldschool boxing for rugby!!!!!!!! oldschool boxing for wrestling!!!! oldschool boxing for bjj!!!!!!!!

:icon_chee
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nooooo, it's not that at all, it's just basic human anatomy, old school is just some term that get's thrown around here a lot but what sinister is talking about is just super basic stuff. I understand why you are saying that though. I have to admit it made me laugh(I am still laughing actually haha), I want to me it clear old school is just one style of fighting, it's not the god of the universe.
 
First things first: "old school" is NOT a style. It's a term for methods used more predominantly in the past. Period.

Now I'll move on to answering specific questions.
 
Sinister said:
First things first: "old school" is NOT a style. It's a term for methods used more predominantly in the past. Period.

Now I'll move on to answering specific questions.
Click to expand...

excuse me? you said it wasn't a style and than went on to say it was actually a style, so witch one is it? and what exactly are you insinuating when you say it's not a style, what is it then? this is why these arguments blow up all the time, it's just some way of fighting just like any other way of fighting. Why does there always have to be this idea of my way of fighting is better than every body else's way and everything else is just complete crap?
 
Across a lot of sports, movement is movement. People (generally) have two arms, two legs, same points of articulation. Not all concepts are universal, but more than one would think. With Muay Thai we see a little deviation from Boxing, because one's positioning, points of contact with the ground, are also targets.


Edit: I believe Sinister made a distinction, that being that methods themselves do not really constitute an entire "style". Cotto is not seen as an old school fighter, but still uses many effective Boxing concepts- the same ones that we discuss on here. I personally don't believe it's a case of "utilize *this style* in your stand-up or your way of fighting is wrong". Concepts can be added to anyone's game. Putting a label on things, however, does make it easier to discuss on a forum.
 
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yodave said:
If I understand correctly all sinister is really saying here is make sure your lead foot is aligned with your opponent's body. That's not just in martial arts, that's true in sports period, if you want to line up a shot in basketball your lead foot has to be facing the basket, if you wan to make a shot in tennis your lead foot has to be facing the spot you want to aim for, the only way your body can perfectly align itself is if your lead foot is pointing exactly in that direction.
Click to expand...

You are going too far here. Lets keep boxing with boxing, and not have it carry over to all of life's activities. Christ, some of you guys act like you have discovered the secret to life with this Old School Boxing. Next you will tell me if I want to get a girls phone number, I should aline my lead foot to her centerline when talking to her. Lead fist in a threatening manner, weight distribution at 70/30 etc.

Sorry for the highjack, but come on guys.

Now back to the thread topic.
 
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