Explain to a dumb person the relationship between USA and Israel

[M3t4tr0n]

 

[bufetadanacara]

There are lots of rich Jewish people in the Media, Hollywood, Congress, Wallstreet, banking, real estate, and basically have a lot of money to fund pro Israeli lobbying. A lot of them have ties to Israeli pharma, tech, and weapons companies. Some of the Limousine Liberals types have no problem killing Palestinians, because they are Jewish and even bigger victims.

Or it is a relatively small group of religious nuts.

I wish that group we even smaller.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Dude, you're still here? I already "backed up" my point 4 days ago, your response was "lol". Secondly.... I said I accept your surrender and told you that you may go.... what more do you want?

You mean this post?

Since you won't actually answer any of my questions, I'll do it for you:

1.) what are Al Qaeda's stated positions?

Chief among Al Qaeda's stated positions is "the destruction of World Wide Jewry". That's pretty self explanitory don't you think? Now what on earth would give anyone an indication that that might make Israel a target? P.S., this is a pretty standard position for any Islamic Jihadist group.

2.) What is this position based on?

Seeing as these people are fundamentalist Muslims, all of their beliefs are based off of the most hard line, literal understanding of Muslim beliefs, chief amongst those the belief that no Muslim who has ever lived can go to Paradise until every single Jewish person living in the world has been hunted down and killed. There are anywhere between 15 and 17 million Jewish people in the entire world. Roughly 7 million live in the US, and around 6.5 million live in Israel. That's well over half of the world's Jewish population in just those two countries. So again, why on earth would radical, fundamentalist Jihadists have a bone to pick with Israel, and why would we, the next logical target in line for the fullfilment of their very own stated goals, not have a vested interest in supporting them? Gee, I certainly can't think of any.

3.) What was Bin Laden doing in Africa in the 90s?

Amongst other things, like attacking US Embassy's, as Africa at the time was about the extent of his influence, he was attacking hotels and other popular tourist spots of, guess who, Israeli Citizens. It's only really been since the late 90s that Al Qaeda has had the money and organization to actually be able to get to the US. So who else would they be looking to carry out these attacks on? Other interests in the region. Once again, it is their own stated purpose based on the words of their very own prophet that they must exterminate Jews from the world, and a nation that just so happens to account for half the freaking world's Jewish population is sitting in the Middle East, surrounded by hostile Muslim nations and supported by the most powerful nation on earth. Why that all has to be explained to people like you and @abi their children is frankly mind blowing to me. So like I said, it's frustrating for me to have converstions on this subject with people. Because their is no conversation. I spend all my time having to educate you on basic principles of a 1400 year old conflict (I bet you'll make some snide comment about that because you don't understand what I'm talking about) while you accuse me of deflecting for simply pointing out that you don't know shit.

Amongst other things, like attacking US Embassy's,

So not really being a very good buffer then are they?

why dont we look at Al Qaeda attacks prior to 9/11 and you can point out the ones where Israel has been a buffer?

1990s[edit]

• On December 29, 1992,[1] the first attack by Al-Qaeda was carried out in Aden, Yemen[2][3][4] known as the 1992 Yemen Hotel Bombings. That evening, a bomb went off at the Gold Mohur hotel, where U.S. troops had been staying while en route to Somalia, though the troops had already left when the bomb exploded. The bombers targeted a second hotel, the Aden Movenpick, where they believed American troops might also be staying. That bomb detonated prematurely in the hotel car park, around the same time as the other bomb explosion, killing an Austrian tourist and a Yemeni citizen.[1][3] Osama Bin Laden claimed responsibility for the attack in 1998.[2]
• On February 26, 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time. A bomb built in Jersey City was driven into an underground garage of the World Trade Center. The blast killed six people and injured 1,500 others.[5] The attack was not an official al-Qaeda operation though the attack's mastermind Ramzi Yousef trained in al-Qaeda camps. Osama Bin Laden was never indicted for the attack.[6]
• In August 1998, Al-Qaeda operatives carried out the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing more than 200 people and injuring more than 5,000 others.[7]

2000s[edit]

2000[edit]

• Al-Qaeda planned to attack the USS The Sullivans on January 3, 2000, but the effort failed due to too much weight being put on the small boat meant to bomb the ship.
• Despite the setback with the USS The Sullivans, al-Qaeda succeeded in bombing a U.S. Navy warship in October 2000 with the USS Cole bombing, killing 17 sailors. A day later, a grenade was thrown at the British embassy in Yemen, blowing up one of its electric generators.[8][9]

2001[edit]

• On September 9, 2001, two Tunisian members of al-Qaeda assassinated Ahmed Shah Massoud, the leader of the Northern Alliance. One of the suicide attackers was killed by the explosion, while the other was captured and shot while trying to escape. It is believed that Osama Bin Laden ordered Massoud's assassination to help his Taliban protectors and ensure he would have their co-operation in Afghanistan.[10]

Unless of course by being a 'buffer' you mean against their mean words rather than their actions, because when we look at actions it's pretty clear that the west are taking the flak?

Maybe we should look at the Jihadi groups who have attacked Israel? Hamas perhaps and Hezbollah? Well Hezbollah have attacked US interests, but thats directly because of US support for Israel, at the same time Hezbollah have killed more Jihadists e.g ISIS than Israel have.

 

[Muay o Muay]

what is the leverage that Israel has over the USA?

Are they just an ally, in the sense of, they are the USAs number one guy I’m the Middle East supporting U.S interests?

Is it because of wealthy and powerful Jewish people in the USA who are sympathetic?

Help me understand.

When taken in the context of a reply to the op that you were responding to, your post is even more stupid, suggesting that this is the reason, especially when you consider the US is also allied with Saudi Arabia the biggest exporter of wahabi extremism, it shows you know little of the history of the US/Israeli relationship through the cold war also.

Israel has served as a buffer for a long time prior to 9/11 for the wrath of Jihadists who would otherwise wish to attack the West.



LOL, no.

OP asked 'explain for a dumb person', I guess you misread it as him asking for a dumb person to explain. Oh and that 'LOL, no' at the bottom of your quoted post was your response to another posters statement, kind of ironic seeing as you tried to berate me for replying LOL to your statements ITT!

 

[lfd0311]

OP asked 'explain for a dumb person', I guess you misread it as him asking for a dumb person to explain. Oh and that 'LOL, no' at the bottom of your quoted post was your response to another posters statement, kind of ironic seeing as you tried to berate me for replying LOL to your statements ITT!

Soo... for like the 10th straight post you're going with the "ignore all the points I asked for, go with the you're dumb argument"? shocked.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Soo... for like the 10th straight post you're going with the "ignore all the points I asked for, go with the you're dumb argument"? shocked.

Er try looking a few posts up the page.I responded to the only post you have made with anything that resembles an attempt at support for your claim rather that blatant deflection and avoidance.

 

[lfd0311]

Er try looking a few posts up the page.I responded to the only post you have made with anything that resembles an attempt at support for your claim rather that blatant deflection and avoidance.

Show me.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Show me.

I accept your surrender.

 

[xcvbn]

Israel as an American ally has been the worst return on investment in world history. At best they're useless divas, at worst they force us into decades long engagements that could bankrupt us.

 

[lfd0311]

I accept your surrender.

Boom. the best of all dodges. Is there a reason you're still here. Do you just need my attention or something?

 

[Muay o Muay]

Boom. the best of all dodges. Is there a reason you're still here. Do you just need my attention or something?

Err..

I accept your surrender.

I accept your second consecutive surrender.

.... I said I accept your surrender and told you that you may go.... what more do you want?

Best dodge ever lol.

 

[lfd0311]

You mean this post?



Amongst other things, like attacking US Embassy's,

So not really being a very good buffer then are they?

why dont we look at Al Qaeda attacks prior to 9/11 and you can point out the ones where Israel has been a buffer?

1990s[edit]

• On December 29, 1992,[1] the first attack by Al-Qaeda was carried out in Aden, Yemen[2][3][4] known as the 1992 Yemen Hotel Bombings. That evening, a bomb went off at the Gold Mohur hotel, where U.S. troops had been staying while en route to Somalia, though the troops had already left when the bomb exploded. The bombers targeted a second hotel, the Aden Movenpick, where they believed American troops might also be staying. That bomb detonated prematurely in the hotel car park, around the same time as the other bomb explosion, killing an Austrian tourist and a Yemeni citizen.[1][3] Osama Bin Laden claimed responsibility for the attack in 1998.[2]
• On February 26, 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time. A bomb built in Jersey City was driven into an underground garage of the World Trade Center. The blast killed six people and injured 1,500 others.[5] The attack was not an official al-Qaeda operation though the attack's mastermind Ramzi Yousef trained in al-Qaeda camps. Osama Bin Laden was never indicted for the attack.[6]
• In August 1998, Al-Qaeda operatives carried out the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing more than 200 people and injuring more than 5,000 others.[7]

2000s[edit]

2000[edit]

• Al-Qaeda planned to attack the USS The Sullivans on January 3, 2000, but the effort failed due to too much weight being put on the small boat meant to bomb the ship.
• Despite the setback with the USS The Sullivans, al-Qaeda succeeded in bombing a U.S. Navy warship in October 2000 with the USS Cole bombing, killing 17 sailors. A day later, a grenade was thrown at the British embassy in Yemen, blowing up one of its electric generators.[8][9]

2001[edit]

• On September 9, 2001, two Tunisian members of al-Qaeda assassinated Ahmed Shah Massoud, the leader of the Northern Alliance. One of the suicide attackers was killed by the explosion, while the other was captured and shot while trying to escape. It is believed that Osama Bin Laden ordered Massoud's assassination to help his Taliban protectors and ensure he would have their co-operation in Afghanistan.[10]

Unless of course by being a 'buffer' you mean against their mean words rather than their actions, because when we look at actions it's pretty clear that the west are taking the flak?

Maybe we should look at the Jihadi groups who have attacked Israel? Hamas perhaps and Hezbollah? Well Hezbollah have attacked US interests, but thats directly because of US support for Israel, at the same time Hezbollah have killed more Jihadists e.g ISIS than Israel have.

Sorry, missed this bit of failing excellence...

Wow dude, how stupid are you? Is any of those attacks in the United States? No? Then I'd say that's a pretty affective buffer, since if you'd actually read what I said, I said the best they could do was attack American interests in Africa..... Could you fail more?

And that was one out of three. Dude, could you suck just a little more? good God.

 

[asdffdsa]

Israel:USA::NK:Chyna

 

[Muay o Muay]

Sorry, missed this bit of failing excellence...

Wow dude, how stupid are you? Is any of those attacks in the United States? No? Then I'd say that's a pretty affective buffer, since if you'd actually read what I said, I said the best they could do was attack American interests in Africa..... Could you fail more?

And that was one out of three. Dude, could you suck just a little more? good God.

I appreciate reading isn't your strong point...

On February 26, 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time.

And still nothing you have posted supports Israel being a buffer, if anything the only buffer you have demonstrated was AQ's own operational reach.

 

[lfd0311]

I appreciate reading isn't your strong point...

On February 26, 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time.

And still nothing you have posted supports Israel being a buffer, if anything the only buffer you have demonstrated was AQ's own operational reach.

Their operational reach all the way to Africa? Was that supposed to be stupid? Notice How you ignored the Mombasa bombing in Kenya in 2002 and Al-Qaeda's attempt to shoot down an aircraft full of Israelis? You're also ignoring the many Al Qaeda shell organizations like Jund Ansar Allah that operate in Gaza. You are, once again, ignoring Bin Laden himself. Al Qaeda's purpose is global jihad, of which they consider the jihad against Israel the most important. For like the 5th time, please, please take a crack at why that might be.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Sorry, missed this bit of failing excellence...

Wow dude, how stupid are you? Is any of those attacks in the United States? No? Then I'd say that's a pretty affective buffer, since if you'd actually read what I said, I said the best they could do was attack American interests in Africa..... Could you fail more?

And that was one out of three. Dude, could you suck just a little more? good God.

Their operational reach all the way to Africa? Was that supposed to be stupid? Notice How you ignored the Mombasa bombing in Kenya in 2002 and Al-Qaeda's attempt to shoot down an aircraft full of Israelis? You're also ignoring the many Al Qaeda shell organizations like Jund Ansar Allah that operate in Gaza. You are, once again, ignoring Bin Laden himself. Al Qaeda's purpose is global jihad, of which they consider the jihad against Israel the most important. For like the 5th time, please, please take a crack at why that might be.

The absurdity is unreal, you have just tried to claim that none of the attacks were in the united states and therefore Israel has been a pretty effective buffer. Its there in black and white, you wrote that, you made that argument, can we agree?

Can we also agree that you were wrong, as yes in fact the 1993 bombing of the WORLD TRADE CENTRE was in the United States (where you live.)

I purposefully only went as far as 9/11 as YOU stated in your op that Israel has been a buffer since way before then.

So here you're now asking me to take into account the Mombasa attack and an attempt to shoot down a plane of Israelis as an attack on Israel and evidence towards your claim they have been a buffer.
I can accept the attempted shooting down and Mombasa bombing as an attack on Israel, however we must therefore apply this same standard to all of the attacks on US interests, citizens and embassies as being attacks on the US, and therefore the only logical conclusion is again, that you are wrong and that Israel hasn't been a very good buffer, and much less, that the US/Israel special relationship is based on this buffer notion of yours.

 

[lfd0311]

The absurdity is unreal, you have just tried to claim that none of the attacks were in the united states and therefore Israel has been a pretty effective buffer. Its there in black and white, you wrote that, you made that argument, can we agree?

The abusurdity of what? Your argument?

Can we also agree that you were wrong, as yes in fact the 1993 bombing of the WORLD TRADE CENTRE was in the United States (where you live.)

Yes, I skimmed right past this in your absurd point making. That one attack in 1993 (the first and only one prior to 9/11) that killed a whooping 6 people. Do you somehow feel vindicated or less ridiculous?

I purposefully only went as far as 9/11 as YOU stated in your op that Israel has been a buffer since way before then.

Because it has. Your argument isn't disproving that, it's actually making a pretty strong case on my behalf. Your rage won't let you see that.

So here you're now asking me to take into account the Mombasa attack and an attempt to shoot down a plane of Israelis as an attack on Israel and evidence towards your claim they have been a buffer.

Holy f**k dude. What did you think I was talking about when I brought up Africa? Honestly, this is like talking to a 5 years old. This isn't a new argument on my part, you just starting to come around, after now like 4 days worth of posts, to what I've been talking about this whole time, doesn't make it a "new" argument on my part.

I can accept the attempted shooting down and Mombasa bombing as an attack on Israel, however we must therefore apply this same standard to all of the attacks on US interests, citizens and embassies as being attacks on the US, and therefore the only logical conclusion is again, that you are wrong and that Israel hasn't been a very good buffer, and much less, that the US/Israel special relationship is based on this buffer notion of yours.

Oh. Really? Do we? Or we just once again have to accept that you can't read and can't formulate an argument.

Since you won't actually answer any of my questions, I'll do it for you:

1.) what are Al Qaeda's stated positions?

Chief among Al Qaeda's stated positions is "the destruction of World Wide Jewry". That's pretty self explanitory don't you think? Now what on earth would give anyone an indication that that might make Israel a target? P.S., this is a pretty standard position for any Islamic Jihadist group.

2.) What is this position based on?

Seeing as these people are fundamentalist Muslims, all of their beliefs are based off of the most hard line, literal understanding of Muslim beliefs, chief amongst those the belief that no Muslim who has ever lived can go to Paradise until every single Jewish person living in the world has been hunted down and killed. There are anywhere between 15 and 17 million Jewish people in the entire world. Roughly 7 million live in the US, and around 6.5 million live in Israel. That's well over half of the world's Jewish population in just those two countries. So again, why on earth would radical, fundamentalist Jihadists have a bone to pick with Israel, and why would we, the next logical target in line for the fullfilment of their very own stated goals, not have a vested interest in supporting them? Gee, I certainly can't think of any.

3.) What was Bin Laden doing in Africa in the 90s?

Amongst other things, like attacking US Embassy's, as Africa at the time was about the extent of his influence, he was attacking hotels and other popular tourist spots of, guess who, Israeli Citizens. It's only really been since the late 90s that Al Qaeda has had the money and organization to actually be able to get to the US. So who else would they be looking to carry out these attacks on? Other interests in the region. Once again, it is their own stated purpose based on the words of their very own prophet that they must exterminate Jews from the world, and a nation that just so happens to account for half the freaking world's Jewish population is sitting in the Middle East, surrounded by hostile Muslim nations and supported by the most powerful nation on earth. Why that all has to be explained to people like you and @abi their children is frankly mind blowing to me. So like I said, it's frustrating for me to have converstions on this subject with people. Because their is no conversation. I spend all my time having to educate you on basic principles of a 1400 year old conflict (I bet you'll make some snide comment about that because you don't understand what I'm talking about) while you accuse me of deflecting for simply pointing out that you don't know shit.

 

[Muay o Muay]

The abusurdity of what? Your argument?



Yes, I skimmed right past this in your absurd point making. That one attack in 1993 (the first and only one prior to 9/11) that killed a whooping 6 people. Do you somehow feel vindicated or less ridiculous?



Because it has. Your argument isn't disproving that, it's actually making a pretty strong case on my behalf. Your rage won't let you see that.


Holy f**k dude. What did you think I was talking about when I brought up Africa? Honestly, this is like talking to a 5 years old. This isn't a new argument on my part, you just starting to come around, after now like 4 days worth of posts, to what I've been talking about this whole time, doesn't make it a "new" argument on my part.



Oh. Really? Do we? Or we just once again have to accept that you can't read and can't formulate an argument.

No YOU havent formulated a proper argument, will give you a last chance to do it properly, you have failed at 1st base so far.
For an argument to hold water you have to:

1. Define a finite set of premises that illustrate the line of reasoning for the argument. ...
2. Gather evidence that will validate those premises. ...
3. Acknowledge opposing arguments, while managing to refute them

Here's a simplified version you might find easier (hint, part 2 comes before 3)

1. A point of view: This is the statement of what you believe.
2. A reason for that point of view:This is why you feel that way.
3. Proof to back up your reason:This is the evidence you use to drive your point home and make your argument real.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

Israel on top
USA on the bottom

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Jews are a pretty well organized and connected community. Most major donors on both sides are Jewish and Zionists. There's also a large segment of voters, mainly on the Republican side, who are pro-Israel, mainly Evangelicals who think Jews reclaiming Israel is necessary for the rapture to occur. The Israel lobby is incredibly powerful. They also tend to own mainstream media companies or have higher up positions within these companies. That said, the average American Jew isn't necessarily a strong Zionist or a neocon, but the most powerful ones are more likely to be those things.