Everyone needs to chill on the GOAT talk!

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by OrigFan255, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. OrigFan255 Brown Belt

    OrigFan255
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    3,881
    Location:
    NYC Metro Area
    GOAT = Greatest Of ALL Time!

    I will 100% Guarantee anyone that the Greatest MMA fighter of ALL time will never have a definitive answer. They are in the future. All Time = The future also.

    Athletes always have and always will get better. I seriously believe that the greats of the early 90's would not even win a TUF show.

    MMA is and will always be a non-stop chess match. That is why I love it.

    If anyone wants to discuss the Greatest Up Until Now, be my guest.

    Fedor = GUUN Ran through the best of his time for a LONG time AND he did it in the heavyweight division, where fighters are fighting with nukes, not .22 calibur like in the lighter weight divisions.
    AND, I absolutely believe that Fedor did not do steroids.

    My 2 cents for the weekly GOAT talk.
     
    #1
    TrueFightFan likes this.
  2. Myrddin Wild Lets enjoy our time together!

    Myrddin Wild
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    14,093
    Likes Received:
    48,929
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    If GSP keeps winning titles... he will be the clear GOAT
     
    #2
  3. Myrddin Wild Lets enjoy our time together!

    Myrddin Wild
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    14,093
    Likes Received:
    48,929
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    The 6 GOATs all have a similar amount of title wins....

    I broke the 6 GOAT's wins down in a unique way. I added up the number of title fight people that did well after they lost to the GOAT. I did it this way so as not to give unfair advantage to a GOAT beating someone who was at the end of their significant career or just simply a can. The list came up like this...

    Spider = 9 - Franklin (twice), Marquardt, Cote, Leites, Maia, Belfort, Chael & Hendo
    Fedor = 8 - Arona, Sobrol, Big Nog (Twice) , Cro Cop, Hunt, Arlovski, & Monson
    GSP = 8 – Bisping, Jon Fitch, Jake Shieds, Condit, Penn (twice) Hendricks, Hughes (but the 2nd win not counted due to Hughes losing a lot & fighting people about to retire.) (Bisping had the belt at the time so that’s a GOAT point for sure)
    Mouse = 7 - Benevidez (twice), Dodson (twice), Moraga, Kyoji, Cejudo (keep an eye on Borg)
    Aldo = 7 - Uriah, Lamas, Jung, Edgar (twice) Mendez (twice)
    Jones = 6 – Shogun, Machida, Vitor, Gus, Teix & DC (Once… 2nd due to no contest & doesn’t count)

    Shout out to Couture with 9 title winz spanning 2 weight divisionz. - (I didn't do a breakdown of how his opponents did after fighting him though since 9 titles is much less than the others.)
     
    #3
  4. Aforo88 Green Belt

    Aforo88
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    617
    I never understood this GOAT talk. Everybody has their own premis and rank their premisses in different orders, so this discussion is just stupid IMO.
     
    #4
    Benoitthegr8 and mjoln like this.
  5. IamStryker Red Belt

    IamStryker
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    8,370
    Likes Received:
    6,480
    It is an extremely stupid point of contention.

    There will never be a definitive answer so everyone needs shut up about it.
     
    #5
    Aforo88 and AimedWithV like this.
  6. IamStryker Red Belt

    IamStryker
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    8,370
    Likes Received:
    6,480
    GSP is awesome and everything but I hate these stupid free title shots people have been getting lately. Winning one fight against a shit champion like Bisping in a division that he never fought in is not as crazy as everyone is making it out to be. I will be far more impressed if GSP can beat Whitaker.
     
    #6
    peterparker66 likes this.
  7. MusterX Steel Belt

    MusterX
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Messages:
    30,174
    Likes Received:
    18,463
    I'm not sure what all that means but GSP has won 13 title fights, including his last 11 consecutively.
     
    #7
  8. Myrddin Wild Lets enjoy our time together!

    Myrddin Wild
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    14,093
    Likes Received:
    48,929
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    I actally underlined the key component of why I chose the people I listed.

    "people who did well AFTER fighting the GOAT"
     
    #8
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  9. Grijswaarde Black Belt

    Grijswaarde
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    7,262
    Location:
    Rotterdam, Holland
    "I added up the number of title fight people that did well after they lost to the GOAT."

    English is not my first language, but what does that mean?

    {<huh}
     
    #9
    20falarVerdades likes this.
  10. Myrddin Wild Lets enjoy our time together!

    Myrddin Wild
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    14,093
    Likes Received:
    48,929
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    Obviously Whitaker is a key win... but Bisping has been in the top 10 for over a decade for a reason. Call it luck, or whatever you want, but no scrub is going to knock out Rockhold. That took skill. Bisping has been one fight away from the title almost his whole career... so to say he wasn't valid as a champ is something I don't get.

    As for GSP... nobody had a problem with him moving up for a super fight with Spider back when he was active. The one & only reason this now seems like a problem is because of the time off. & wtf... he won... so apparently time off wasn't an issue.

    per my original statement... I said "If GSP keeps collecting titles" he will start walking away as the true goat. I said it that way because i believe he is still submerged in the big 5 or 6 atm.
     
    #10
  11. 20falarVerdades Brown Belt

    20falarVerdades
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,609
    Likes Received:
    18,753
    It is very easy to acknowledge that Jon Jones is the GOAT, unless you are biased
     
    #11
  12. Myrddin Wild Lets enjoy our time together!

    Myrddin Wild
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    14,093
    Likes Received:
    48,929
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    Perhaps I could re-word that to be more clear.

    It means that I made a list of all the people the GOAT won a title fight against

    & then I checked to see how well each person did after that fight.

    Fedor would be an excellent example of why I did it this way. Obviously he had more wins as he held the top spot in Pride... but many of them were not legit contenders. Also consider Mark Coleman... who was a UFC champ & a major force for a very long time... but by the time he fought Fedor, he was at the end of his career & got no significant wins "AFTER" fighting Fedor. (He doesn't get credit for a significant win off of the weird arm sprain that happened during the Shogun fight) So I did not give Fedor a GOAT point for fighting a Mark Coleman at the end of his career.
     
    #12
    Grijswaarde likes this.
  13. The guest Talkin that sass.

    The guest
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    14,330
    Likes Received:
    23,559
    Uhhhhh...NO.

    GOAT discussion obviously refers to the past, and present. Give your head a shake.

    It’s GSP, btw.
     
    #13
  14. Grijswaarde Black Belt

    Grijswaarde
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    7,262
    Location:
    Rotterdam, Holland
    Ah ok i get it now... fair enough. It doesn't take in account that some fights can almost literaly break a fighter (and thus they underperform in the fights after, which doesn't mean the goat fought a "weak" version imo), but it is better than just counting all wins, agreed.
     
    #14
    Myrddin Wild likes this.
  15. Myrddin Wild Lets enjoy our time together!

    Myrddin Wild
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    14,093
    Likes Received:
    48,929
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    Thanx bro. It's just something I thought about one day & spent a crazy amount of time researching. lol... If nothing else it is food for thought... & another way to look at this discussion that really has no definite answer.
     
    #15
  16. shinobimusashi Blue Belt

    shinobimusashi
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    755
    It's definitely something I'm tired of seeing
     
    #16
  17. Sirwastealot Red Belt

    Sirwastealot
    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,678
    Likes Received:
    2,074
    I really don't agree with this argument. When we say greatest of all time it is implied we mean "until now". No one can look into the future, and never will. So by that logic we would never be call someone the greatest, in any sport. Even a michael jordan, gretzky, sugar ray robinson etc.

    So to me it is always implied GOAT means greatest of all time until now.
     
    #17
  18. KevinLee Green Belt

    KevinLee
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,448
    Likes Received:
    4,737
    Let me guess you seen that episode of DBZ Super yesterday ? Was a pretty good episode btw.
     
    #18
  19. rurouni Brown Belt

    rurouni
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    4,270
    Likes Received:
    2,960
    dan henderson
    gsp
    mcgreg
    cormier
    fedor
    couture
    vitor
    liddell
    tito

    proven roided excluded ( legal T at the time included)
     
    #19
  20. Olir Brown Belt

    Olir
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,797
    Likes Received:
    146
    Not only is he not in the discussion, those last 3 wins are nowhere near relevant. Dodson is a good fighter but never really accomplished greatness himself so that's sketchy. Benevidez is pretty much the only competition that can even begin to be mentioned with the names you've been listing and that's a stretch and a half.
     
    #20

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"