Every government is a good representation of its country.

[Rusk]

Sure, if you suck at logic that is.

you dont think that it is the people who make up the country?

 

[Rod1]

you dont think that it is the people who make up the country?

I do, but your logical conclusion rests on the assumption that immigrants are a normally distributed sample of the country or that the people function the same independently of their enviroment.

 

[Rusk]

I do, but your logical conclusion rests on the assumption that immigrants are a normally distributed sample of the country

They are, unless they are political refugees or some religious/ethnic minority.

or that the people function the same independently of their enviroment.

If Norwegian population would consist 100% of Somalis it would be Somalia. Even thought there would be beautiful Norwegian mountains instead of Somali desert. Country is defined by its people, surely you are agree with this if you agree with the quote in the OP.

 

[Rod1]

They are, unless they are political refugees or some religious/ethnic minority.

Does that means that India is the country with the highest IQ and the highest GDP per capita in the world?

Because Indian-Americans average household income is USD$115k and their average IQ is 112.

If Norwegian population would consist 100% of Somalis it would be Somalia. Even thought there would be beautiful Norwegian mountains instead of Somali desert. Country is defined by its people, surely you are agree with this if you agree with the quote in the OP.

A country is defined by a lot of things, geography, history, political system, economy and the such. The role of the individual changes depending on the context he is living in we are both shaped and shape our enviroment.

Elon Musk leaves South Africa, goes to study sciences, then decides to drop out of school and become an entrepeneur, his life experiences would had been markedly different had he remained in South Africa without a doubt.

 

[Son of Jamin]

Interesting topic!

As an example from a Swedish context!

For so many years, state owned media, politicians and msm have told Swedes that they need immigration to save the pensions and that the immigration is an amazing financial gain!

Bear in mind that I’m not talking about humanitarian reasons, only financial!

Fast forward and government agencies are now talking about that pensions will be lower and the welfare state is beginning to crack under the pressure of mass immigration!

So the people were fed lies from the powers that be. It is not so easy for the common man to see through the shenanigans!

 

[USA!USA!]

I think this is true of most nations currently. Especially in the US. Trump is all on us.

Really? It's on us and not Russia? What a relief.

 

[HomerThompson]

Really? It's on us and not Russia? What a relief.

We still got duped, regardless of the Russian interference.

 

[Rod1]

Interesting topic!

As an example from a Swedish context!

For so many years, state owned media, politicians and msm have told Swedes that they need immigration to save the pensions and that the immigration is an amazing financial gain!

Bear in mind that I’m not talking about humanitarian reasons, only financial!

Fast forward and government agencies are now talking about that pensions will be lower and the welfare state is beginning to crack under the pressure of mass immigration!

So the people were fed lies from the powers that be. It is not so easy for the common man to see through the shenanigans!

The "power that be" are composed of elected Swedes, when i say country im meaning everyone.

 

[USA!USA!]

We still got duped, regardless of the Russian interference.

Not really sure it was a dupe, honestly - I think the people who voted for him got what they bargained for.

 

[Rusk]

Does that means that India is the country with the highest IQ and the highest GDP per capita in the world?

Because Indian-Americans average household income is USD$115k and their average IQ is 112.

India is exception to the rule with HUGE population (important factor). Usually if an immigrant group is doing better in another country than in their own is because of the host country, because natives created a good environment to thrive in.

A country is defined by a lot of things, geography, history, political system, economy and the such.

so people?

The role of the individual changes depending on the context he is living in we are both shaped and shape our enviroment.

So does Mexicans deserve their government or not? Or they deserve half of it or something? lol

Elon Musk leaves South Africa, goes to study sciences, then decides to drop out of school and become an entrepeneur, his life experiences would had been markedly different had he remained in South Africa without a doubt.

Elon Musk would have managed ok in South Africa too, unless he would get murdered. The guy got highly functional brain. Not sure what is you point here, i am not saying that let say a Somalian would have the same experience in Norway as in Somalia.

I am saying that a Somalian would effect his environment the same way in Norway as he does in Somalia. Unless he is stopped somehow by the natives (police, social/economical pressure etc)

 

[Islam Imamate]

Interesting topic!

As an example from a Swedish context!

For so many years, state owned media, politicians and msm have told Swedes that they need immigration to save the pensions and that the immigration is an amazing financial gain!

Bear in mind that I’m not talking about humanitarian reasons, only financial!

Fast forward and government agencies are now talking about that pensions will be lower and the welfare state is beginning to crack under the pressure of mass immigration!

So the people were fed lies from the powers that be. It is not so easy for the common man to see through the shenanigans!

Was it a lie though, or a mistake? I think it was the latter. The people who sold those ideas, they're dispassionate technocrat types. They see people as numbers on a page, just move some here and a few others there and things align perfectly on their spreadsheets. But people aren't just numbers and we don't live in spreadsheets so there were unforeseen consequences facilitated by ideological blinders.

 

[panamaican]

logical conclusion from this is that Mexicans are stupid shitheads. No?

hmmm there is an argument against immigration there somewhere....

That really doesn't make any sense. Having the government they deserve doesn't mean that people with bad governments are stupid shitheads.

It simply means that they are complicit with the continuance of that government and that any changes in their government, or the lack thereof, can be traced back to the people's willingness to accept what they've been given.

 

[Rod1]

I do, but your logical conclusion rests on the assumption that immigrants are a normally distributed sample of the country or that the people function the same independently of their enviroment.

They are, unless they are political refugees or some religious/ethnic minority.

India is exception to the rule with HUGE population (important factor). Usually if an immigrant group is doing better in another country than in their own is because of the host country, because natives created a good environment to thrive in.

so people?

A system composed of people yes.

A brick isnt a building even if buildings are made of bricks.

So does Mexicans deserve their government or not? Or they deserve half of it or something? lol

Yes, they do, i was pretty clear about it.

Elon Musk would have managed ok in South Africa too, unless he would get murdered. The guy got highly functional brain. Not sure what is you point here, i am not saying that let say a Somalian would have the same experience in Norway as in Somalia.

I am saying that a Somalian would effect his environment the same way in Norway as he does in Somalia. Unless he is stopped somehow by the natives (police, social/economical pressure etc)

So you already pointed out one difference, he wouldn had certainly "done well" in the context of a South African intellectual, which is probably not so well.

Also i dont see what the point about the Somalians is.

 

[panamaican]

Also i dont see what the point about the Somalians is.

I'm pretty sure you do.

 

[TSO]

Some countries certainly do, such as Sweden, France, and even Canada where I live.

Any country who voted in a government with an open border mentality deserves what they get. A lot of wasted tax dollars on uneducated tax sponges.

Special mention to Jerry Brown in California, those idiots who voted for him deserve the miles and miles of homeless camps that will continue to get bigger.

The thing about Brown is nobody voted for him, he just all of a sudden was governor again after being fired the first time.

 

[Judge]

Do you agree with this quote?

I used to think no, but with the rise of populism in democracies around the world, im now leaning towards a yes.

Yes, they are built from the ground up. Not the top down. Germany put up Hitler and they knew what they were doing.
Vote Nuke Germany!

 

[Rusk]

That really doesn't make any sense. Having the government they deserve doesn't mean that people with bad governments are stupid shitheads.

It simply means that they are complicit with the continuance of that government and that any changes in their government, or the lack thereof, can be traced back to the people's willingness to accept what they've been given.

You can say weak, stupid or corrupt etc etc depends on the government and the people. If Government is bad because of the people then it is something wrong with the people.

I am not claiming anything, i am going by your logic in the OP.

A system composed of people yes.

A brick isnt a building even if buildings are made of bricks.

But if most bricks are made out of shit, then it will be a shitty house, or maybe not even a house but a shithole. So one would want good bricks to build house with.

Yes, they do, i was pretty clear about it.

Yes but then you said that people are shaped by their environment, so the government is shaping people as well so its not really their fault.

So you already pointed out one difference, he wouldn had certainly "done well" in the context of a South African intellectual, which is probably not so well.

well South Africa is not a good country... still not sure where you are going with this.

Also i dont see what the point about the Somalians is.

I think i was very clear. Your English is better than mine. You got no excuses.

 

[panamaican]

You can say weak, stupid or corrupt etc etc depends on the government and the people. If Government is bad because of the people then it is something wrong with the people.

So then if a government is abusive towards other people it is because there's something wrong with the people?

 

[Rusk]

So then if a government is abusive towards other people it is because there's something wrong with the people?

yes of course, the people who are being abused are weak (unless they are really in minority so we cant really generalize them as "The People"), the people who just stand there and watch are stupid or corrupt, because they cant see through government propaganda, too afraid or whatever, and people who do the abuse are evil or stupid or corrupt or all in one.

Its an evil spiral.

EDIT: If we agree with OP that people really deserves their government the above is the model for it.

 

[panamaican]

yes of course, the people who are being abused are weak (unless they are really in minority so we cant really generalize them as "The People"), the people who just stand there and watch are stupid or corrupt, because they cant see through government propaganda, too afraid or whatever, and people who do the abuse are evil or stupid or corrupt or all in one.

Its an evil spiral.

EDIT: If we agree with OP that people really deserves their government the above is the model for it.

And would you label the people in the abusive governments (not the people in the abused countries) stupid shitheads?