Every Champ Except Holloway and Whittaker* are accomplished Wrestlers

[Frank23]

Wrestling is a great base.

It teaches work ethic too.

 

[Frank23]

You know HS consists of 4 years, right?

It takes longer for some people.

 

[Talon81]

I wonder would wrestling be less effective if they brought back soccer kicks/knees to grounded opponent ?

that assumes the "grounded opponent" is more often the wrestler, which is probably true with soccer kicks but not knees.
Striker knocks opponent down but doesn't want to follow the fight to the ground (common): soccer kick
Wrestler takes opponent down but unable to establish position due to striker defending with legs (uncommon): soccer kick.

Virtually all "knees to downed opponent" will happen while you are down yourself, on top of them. Advantage clearly for the wrestler.

 

[Blue_Lou]

What about 12-6 elbows or strikes to the back of the head? I think I recall seeing Chad Mendes use those rules to his advantage when he fought Conor

 

[MPD-Psycho]

There were some exceptions but it's been that way since the middle ages yeah.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

I didn't go through all the comments to see if anyone corrected you it not.

Greater than >
Less than <

I think you working bjj greater than bjj+wrestling.... Is saying you think bjj alone is better than others combined. Maybe that was your point idk

It was more of a directional arrow than a greater than sign showing how MMA developed. Although I suppose you could turn them around to show how much better knowing multiple martial arts is. lol

 

[chaos_36]

If you are the better wrestler you dictate where the fight takes place.

This is obviously a huge advantage.

Wrestling reigns supreme in MMA.

Yup this. If you dictate where the fight takes place you can fight your opponent where you're strongest. It pretty much common sense as far as fighting is concerned.

 

[MMAart]

Where did josh wrestle again in college? Is he an all American? Answer, he didn’t and he isn’t.

Where did GSP and Khabib wrestle again? Are they all American?

How are their MMA wrestling?

Josh isn’t known for his wrestling, he’s known for his catch skills, there’s a difference.

He outwrestled Randy Couture, one of the best wrestlers in UFC history.

Both those takedowns were after Cormier gassed. Nothing too impressive.

Then how come Barnett wasn't able to take Cormier down?

 

[MMAart]

I didnt determine it. Nobody did. Another man said "arguably" and you then argued with him. Nobody said GSP is a better MMA wrestler than Jones. YOU are the one making huge assumptions saying DC is a better MMA wrestler than GSP. How do you say that with certainty? There is 0 evidence for that.

Is this enough evidence for you?

Since there is no exact way to measure any of this stuff the best we can do is compare what we have. GSP was never outwrestled. Jones was outwrestled by someone who isnt that good at wrestling.

This is Carlos Condit outwrestling GSP:

Are you telling me Condit is a better wrestler than GSP?

Gus catching Jones off guard is like Condit catching GSP off guard.

Virtually all of GSP's wins were primarily due to his wrestling. Jones has a more diverse striking arsenal than GSP but by the eye test, his wrestling appears to be a little less dominant than GSP.

GSP over utilize his wrestling. That does not mean he is a better wrestler than Jones.

And you think in all of GSP's fights, nobody ever surprised GSP in their attempt to takedown?
What about the fact that Jones was not able to take down Gus more than ONCE in ELEVEN attempts? Tell me when GSP has ever met such failure in his take downs, despite that his takedowns were WAY more expected than Jones' take downs.

You kept going back to the Gus fight again. Gus caught Jones off guard once, just like Condit caught GSP off guard.

The fact of the matter is, Cormier is 10x the wrestler than GSP and GSP's best opponents, both in terms of Olympic credentials and MMA wrestling, and Jones outwrestled him, twice.

 

[Talon81]

Is this enough evidence for you?

How is DC taking down Barnett evidence that DC is a better wrestler than GSP? I mean he was good at subs but his TD's and TDD were never considered very good.

This is Carlos Condit outwrestling GSP:

Are you telling me Condit is a better wrestler than GSP?

Oops, there goes your whole argument. GSP, 7/8 TD, Carlos, 0/0. Having a moment of doing well does not mean "outwrestling". GSP clearly outwrestled Condit in that fight. You are doing the equivalent of showing a strike landed by OSP in his fight with Jones and saying he "outstruck" Jones. Sure... at THAT moment.

The fact of the matter is, Cormier is 10x the wrestler than GSP and GSP's best opponents, both in terms of Olympic credentials and MMA wrestling, and Jones outwrestled him, twice.

Fact? Again, your "evidence" is 100% refuted as you have none. DC is a better pure wrestler than Bones and GSP, so that is irrelevant to the discussion.
Absolutely nobody has a real claim to being better than GSP since he outwrestled every opponent by miles. Jones cannot say the same. You can believe Jones is better and that is fine. That is an opinion, but there is 0 evidence to back it up. That is why the sane person who said GSP was "arguably" better is infinitely superior to your logic. At least he admitted it was an opinion. You keep making "fact" statements with no fact whatsoever.

 

[Pierced7681]

Where did GSP and Khabib wrestle again? Are they all American?

How are their MMA wrestling?



He outwrestled Randy Couture, one of the best wrestlers in UFC history.



Then how come Barnett wasn't able to take Cormier down?

Lmao Barnett never outwrestled Randy. You’ve obviously never even seen the fight. Randy pushed josh against the cage, double underhooked him, got the takedowns and handled Josh for a round and a half before josh finally swept him from guard and got on top and pounded him out.

Barnett’s takedowns arent great at all, he’s a catch guy with great subs and position on the ground.

GSP out wrestling Kos for three rounds is a much bigger accomplishment than Jones getting two takedowns late in the fight against a gassed Cormier. Deal with it.

 

[MMAart]

How is DC taking down Gus (who is not a good wrestler) evidence that DC is a better wrestler than GSP?

When was Gus a 260lb+ wrestler?

That's Josh Barnett...

Ok, I don't need to talk to you anymore, considering you have no idea what you're talking about, lol. It's like talking to a kid who just got into MMA and thinks Conor is the best boxer and would beat Mayweather.

 

[MMAart]

Lmao Barnett never outwrestled Randy. You’ve obviously never even seen the fight. Randy pushed josh against the cage, double underhooked him, got the takedowns and handled Josh for a round and a half before josh finally swept him from guard and got on top and pounded him out.

Barnett’s takedowns arent great at all, he’s a catch guy with great subs and position on the ground.

You can talk all you want, but you can't rewrite history with your bullshit... Barnett outwrestled Couture:

GSP out wrestling Kos for three rounds is a much bigger accomplishment than Jones getting two takedowns late in the fight against a gassed Cormier. Deal with it.

"Deal with it"? As a wrestler, neither Koscheck nor GSP is anywhere on the same level as Cormier

GSP got reversed by Carlos Condit...

Do you see any striker outgrappling Cormier??

No? Ok, then please stop talking nonsense about Koscheck or GSP being on the same level as Cormier.

 

[Pierced7681]

You can talk all you want, but you can't rewrite history with your bullshit... Barnett outwrestled Couture:






"Deal with it"? As a wrestler, neither Koscheck nor GSP is anywhere on the same level as Cormier

GSP got reversed by Carlos Condit...

Do you see any striker outgrappling Cormier??

No? Ok, then please stop talking nonsense about Koscheck or GSP being on the same level as Cormier.

You’re fucking delusional and it’s hilarious.

Barnett didn’t get one takedown against Randy. Randy took him down twice. Yet you think Barnett outwrestled him lmao.

I’m done, you’re clearly a retard and it’s pointless continuing to school you on mma.

 

[Talon81]

When was Gus a 260lb+ wrestler?

That's Josh Barnett...

Ok, I don't need to talk to you anymore, considering you have no idea what you're talking about, lol. It's like talking to a kid who just got into MMA and thinks Conor is the best boxer and would beat Mayweather.

You got me on that. I didn't pay close enough attention to the GIF. I still schooled you on every single "point" you made, but you just keep rolling with new, equally unfounded arguments, and have the audacity to talk shit. A man admits when his arguments were defeated. Like this one:

This is Carlos Condit outwrestling GSP:

Did you admit you were wrong? Of course not. You are too much of a hard headed troll.
Consider us about 8-1, me.

 

[AtaTheCrow]

GSP is even less accomplished and he is arguably better than Jones

arguably... very arguably. GSP has for sure the best double leg Takedowns, but Wrestling Overall, i would give that to Jones.

 

[Maori]

DC: National Team Wrestler. International Level

Whittaker: Played Rugby as a kid, but since he has became an MMA fighter he won the Australian Nationals. Not a born wrestler.

Tyron Woodley: State wrestler in HS. All American in College

Khabib: European Pankration Champ, Multiple time Sambo champ, Wrestling since he was 8.

Max Holloway: Never wrestled. He has good takedown defense, but not known for his offensive wrestling.

TJ: State Wrestler in HS.

Cejudo. Olympic Gold Medalist. International Level


Wrestling is the single most important aspect of the game.

Until mma can attract prime elite strikers at the same capacity as wrestlers will never know.

 

[CalvilloRay]

When did Jones outwrestle Cormier? Their fights were mostly striking. Jones got a takedown or two on Cormier late after he gassed out in the first fight, he hardly ourwrestled him.

GSP meanwhile legit outwrestled prime Kos in their first fight.

That was when Kos had completely stopped training wrestling for a couple years just to learn how to throw a jab orverhand right though

 

[CalvilloRay]

You can talk all you want, but you can't rewrite history with your bullshit... Barnett outwrestled Couture:






"Deal with it"? As a wrestler, neither Koscheck nor GSP is anywhere on the same level as Cormier

GSP got reversed by Carlos Condit...

Do you see any striker outgrappling Cormier??

No? Ok, then please stop talking nonsense about Koscheck or GSP being on the same level as Cormier.

I’m pretty sure Gus took DC down twice

 

[NekMinnit]

Whittaker's a pretty fucking good wrestler

Hes only been wrestling properly for 2 years. Can only imagine how good he'd be if he started a lot younger