Europe's top leaders are all childless

[dontsnitch]

If that is indeed true, which I would dispute personally, it would be a phenomenon that is very recent, only a few decades old. One of the strongest progressive forces in the US in the 20th century was the blue collar labor movement. Its only with the waning of that social force that the center of gravity of the left moved to the universities where more radical ideas are commonplace so that the left itself became more elitist and disconnected from the so called family values of the middle and lower classes which were only really formed in the post war era of hyper-American prosperity.

Sure, very rarely can the cause of something so complex be traced to one single cause. How we got here can't be boiled down to lack of values alone.

Personally even as a left leaning individual I find myself increasingly agreeing with social conservatives on homosexuality. In my ideal society homosexuality would be sort like gentleman's adultery in Victorian England; ostensibly considered a bad thing but actually socially acceptable to a point with an informal playbook, generated by the wider culture informally, on how to properly break the rules. Sort of like don't ask don't tell if in polite conversation but something most people are aware happens in semi-public and private spaces and are generally okay with.

I certainly think a state that is willing and able to penetrate the lives of its citizens enough to persecute homosexuals in their bedrooms is scarier than a society where homosexuality is openly accepted.

Couldn't agree more. The very reason why the actual "don't ask don't tell" policy was rejected is because it implied (correctly, IMO) that it was wrong on some level. But yeah, the government has no place in our bedrooms.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Couldn't agree more. The very reason why the actual "don't ask don't tell" policy was rejected is because it implied (correctly, IMO) that it was wrong on some level. But yeah, the government has no place in our bedrooms.

Well funny enough for me the military would be one space where the rules should be more lax in regards to homosexuality. Its a unique institution that can subject its members to the most extreme of situations so I think it should be allowed an exceptional status in many ways and this would be one. Not that homosexuality would be encouraged in the military necessarily, just that it wouldn't be as frowned upon as it would be in the world of high politics or something.

If anything the military is a uniquely suitable space for homosexual interactions between men given the almost complete lack of women and the close knit bonds formed between soldiers and that observation is hardly a modern one given the ancient speculation on the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. In fact I find that warrior-lover archetype kind of interesting, it would distinguish them from other great men like Odysseus who were tethered to a wife and child back home and sort of frees them to chase their glorious death on the battlefield. I'd say that's a certainly a different sort of archetype for young gay man; find glory and honor in your death for your country and warrior-lover

 

[dontsnitch]

Well funny enough for me the military would be one space where the rules should be more lax in regards to homosexuality. Its a unique institution that can subject its members to the most extreme of situations so I think it should be allowed an exceptional status in many ways and this would be one. Not that homosexuality would be encouraged in the military necessarily, just that it wouldn't be as frowned upon as it would be in the world of high politics or something.

If anything the military is a uniquely suitable space for homosexual interactions between men given the almost complete lack of women and the close knit bonds formed between soldiers and that observation is hardly a modern one given the ancient speculation on the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. In fact I find that warrior-lover archetype kind of interesting, it would distinguish them from other great men like Odysseus who were tethered to a wife and child back home and sort of frees them to chase their glorious death on the battlefield. I'd say that's a certainly a different sort of archetype for young gay man; find glory and honor in your death for your country and warrior-lover

I'll give you props for writing this informative post so quickly.

It's also an institution which places you in danger like no other, so it's not surprising that they would try to accommodate as many people and demographics as possible. It's not like Uncle Sam doesn't troll the slums for people to fight and die for "freedom".

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'll give you props for writing this informative post so quickly.

It's also an institution which places you in danger like no other, so it's not surprising that they would try to accommodate as many people and demographics as possible. It's not like Uncle Sam doesn't troll the slums for people to fight and die for "freedom".

Yeah the military is a unique institution which is why I think it deserves its own set of rules that might seem contradictory to the ones governing the rest of society but that's because the military is the wall between civilization and instability.

Returning to homosexuality more generally, the way underage drinking is viewed is not unlike how I'd like homosexuality to be seen in society where in many circles its viewed as a rule that's meant to be broken. Ostensibly underage drinking is considered bad and teachers and parents are supposed to discourage it. But in practice many parents and teachers know that it happens and parents sometimes even tolerate it to some extent. And in our wider culture its presented as almost a coming of age experience in teen films where the dos and don'ts of how to break the rule are articulated through the characters and the consequences they face.

So in my ideal society men and women would be expected to lead publicly heterosexual lives but homosexuality would be accepted as a tender secret between close sorority sisters or teammates on a high school volleyball team or something and those scripts would be articulated by the wider culture through the arts.

I hope that makes some sense, not sure even I have entirely ironed out my own views on the matter.

 

[dontsnitch]

Yeah the military is a unique institution which is why I think it deserves its own set of rules that might seem contradictory to the ones governing the rest of society but that's because the military is the wall between civilization and instability.

Returning to homosexuality more generally, the way underage drinking is viewed is not unlike how I'd like homosexuality to be seen in society where in many circles its viewed as a rule that's meant to be broken. Ostensibly underage drinking is considered bad and teachers and parents are supposed to discourage it. But in practice many parents and teachers know that it happens and parents sometimes even tolerate it to some extent. And in our wider culture its presented as almost a coming of age experience in teen films where the dos and don'ts of how to break the rule are articulated through the characters and the consequences they face.

So in my ideal society men and women would be expected to lead publicly heterosexual lives but homosexuality would be accepted as a tender secret between close sorority sisters or teammates on a high school volleyball team or something and those scripts would be articulated by the wider culture through the arts.

I hope that makes some sense, not sure even I have entirely ironed out my own views on the matter.

It's actually difficult to iron-out entirely, and I think that's not a bad analogy. It's difficult to balance out a classical liberal perspective that does not want to hinder individualism, with a conservative take on sexual morality that rejects a lot of the new progressive movement. I think most of us are still working out of views, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Space]

Are we sure Angela Merkel's not a full-blown lesbian?

Would hit it...with a 2X4.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

I am sure the Putinator has many children he dont want us to know.

For the sake of all that's good, let's hope it remains that way. He's one ugly bastard even for a Ruskie.

 

[goldennirvana]

-Low fertility rate is also a problem in non European countries.

And? How is that relevant?

-Please explain why I'm a leftist. As far as I know I have never interacted with you.

Because of your response to that other guy.

 

[goldennirvana]

Would hit it...with a 2X4.

Leftists always look miserable, and even when they have a smile on their face, it looks forced. They're dying inside. And the countries they rule over end up dying inside, too.

 

[goldennirvana]

Funny how i feel the exact same way about you.

Great argument tho....

The whole of Europe is being destroyed and you're unable to see it. To you, it's just a 'few migrants' entering and it won't change anything. LOL

 

[goldennirvana]

Wont work there is no welfare there for them to leech from, plus they know they are not wanted and their bs wont be tolerated.

Welfare systems will be introduced.

 

[goldennirvana]

looks like you have it all figured out. also a trademark of the brainwashed.

Flawless argument. I am speechless.

 

[jimmas99]

The whole of Europe is being destroyed and you're unable to see it. To you, it's just a 'few migrants' entering and it won't change anything. LOL

Need proof.

 

[goldennirvana]

Need proof.

Young Turks ROFL...

Here's your proof:

Sweden will have a Muslim majority, with Swedes being the minority in a few decades time. Once that happens, your beloved socialist paradise of Sweden will be a failed state. As will France, Germany, Italy, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria etc etc.

 

[jimmas99]

Young Turks ROFL...

Here's your proof:
Sweden will have a Muslim majority, with Swedes being the minority in a few decades time. Once that happens, your beloved socialist paradise of Sweden will be a failed state. As will France, Germany, Italy, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria etc etc.

With big allegations like that i think i need better proof than your crazy assertions and pics if refugees.

 

[goldennirvana]

With big allegations like that i think i need better proof than your crazy assertions and pics if refugees.

Muslims are flooding into Europe, are they not? That's not an allegation, it's an observable fact. Now what do you think will happen once Muslims make up the majority in certain European nations, and even before that point comes? Do you think it will have a positive effect on those nations? Bear in mind the countries which Muslims come from are either on the brink of being failed states or have already arrived at that point.

 

[goldennirvana]

The biggest danger are people like you neu fascists , that have no solutions only division.

I'm pretty sure his solution is to completely stop mass immigration, especially from Muslim countries. That's a start. Then, every attempt should be made to encourage Muslims and other unwanted immigrants (and their descendants) to leave. It's not he who wants the division, he just wants the policies that are bringing about this detrimental change to be thrown in the bin.

Can I ask you one thing, why do you Think native Swedes have the highest living standards they ever had?

Sweden was much safer before it became 'multi-cultural' and it had extremely high living standards back then, too. Wait to see what Sweden will be like in 50 years time, once Swedes become the minority. Only the most foolish of people can't imagine it will be an utter cesspit of a country with absolutely nothing going for it.

 

[goldennirvana]

I simply think the present, peaceful Europe is better.

Europe hasn't experienced a major war since WW2 not because of mass immigration. How dumb do you have to be to believe that's the reason for European peacetime? My word.

Dealing with the integration of newcomers (who arrive to fill the labor needs of an aging population, NOT out of goodness or charity) is much better than dealing with invading armies. But that's just me.

1). Europe has an aging population largely due to left-wing ideologies (feminism & hedonism to name but two).
2). Europe as we currently know it won't exist in 50 years time as the REAL Europeans (yes, the white folk) will be the minority in their own countries, their various cultures stamped out, and to replace them a load of third world (mainly Muslim) immigrants. Once Muslims become the majority, you can say goodbye to your beloved feminism & LGBT rights. LOL!
3). There aren't enough jobs for the native Europeans, so there's definitely not enough jobs for the immigrants too. Labour shortage is not the reason for third world mass immigration.

War is bad, but mass third world immigration is even worse, because it will literally destroy Europe FOREVER. After hundreds of years of war, Europe was always able to rebuild. But after mass third world immigration has destroyed Europe, it won't even exist.

 

[Gigas]

Welfare systems will be introduced.

lol the leches don't want to go to Denmark cause their welfare is to low, but yahh they will go to Hungery Chechs and Poland where there is near none ?

 

[goldennirvana]

lol the leches don't want to go to Denmark cause their welfare is to low, but yahh they will go to Hungery Chechs and Poland where there is near none ?

Welfare in those countries will be made more beneficial to attract them.