Ernesto Hoost: The Perfect Low Kick

[Azam]

Particularly because his opponent couldn't threaten his centerline, and opted for wild hooks, long-range and readable roundhouses, and spinning-kick instead. His opponent also seemed to not respect low-kicks (or just don't know how to properly defend them).

Most likely, had there been teeps or competent jab/crosses he would need to resort to other setups for that much hip commitment.

I don't think it had anything to do with his centerline - more to do with the fact his sense of distance was way off - that's why he kept getting tagged with low kicks, maybe it was nerves & the fact that Lucas was throwing them pitch perfect (especially the first one).

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

I don't think it had anything to do with his centerline - more to do with the fact his sense of distance was way off - that's why he kept getting tagged with low kicks, maybe it was nerves & the fact that Lucas was throwing them pitch perfect (especially the first one).

I'll address this one first, since I'm very short on time right now. Being able to threaten the centerline is a high priority in having a sense of distance / controlling distance. His opponent was neither threaten the centerline with punches nor with kicks. This gives plenty more room for full committed kicks, as centerline attacks will always be longer than arced attacks.

So it's that he didn't even try to threaten it, and opted for arced attack instead. But yeah, with the sense of distance off (arced attacks) is a big problem in itself too.

I agree that Lucas threw them very well, but maintain that the centerline will always play a very critical part to overall striking, and particularly for dealing with full commitment attacks.

 

[Azam]

I'll address this one first, since I'm very short on time right now. Being able to threaten the centerline is a high priority in having a sense of distance / controlling distance. His opponent was neither threaten the centerline with punches nor with kicks. This gives plenty more room for full committed kicks, as centerline attacks will always be longer than arced attacks.

So it's that he didn't even try to threaten it, and opted for arced attack instead. But yeah, with the sense of distance off (arced attacks) is a big problem in itself too.

I agree that Lucas threw them very well, but maintain that the centerline will always play a very critical part to overall striking, and particularly for dealing with full commitment attacks.

I get what you're saying with the centerline but he didn't really attempt to threaten the centerline at all - that's my point when I say I don't think it has much to do with the centerline more to do with fact that he got his distancing muddled probably because he was nervous about fighting Lucas - hence the low kick that landed flush while his weight was on that leg - he reacted to it after it hit, precisely because his sense of range was off - my guess is probably intimidated by Lucas & to front foot heavy throughout & after that he really didn't do anything with intent & got tagged again.

The centerline is critical but it plays no bearing here...at least not that I can see.

 

[Stev3]

Thought Kaman was Mr. Low kick lol

Excellent insight and write up

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

Thought Kaman was Mr. Low kick lol

Excellent insight and write up

I wanted to rob Kaman of his name.

Kidding, but that would make me quite Hoost fan, considering their history. Total accident though, my mistake. Attributed Hoost's fame for low-kicks and "Mr." Perfect together.

Thank you for your compliment.

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

I get what you're saying with the centerline but he didn't really attempt to threaten the centerline at all - that's my point when I say I don't think it has much to do with the centerline more to do with fact that he got his distancing muddled probably because he was nervous about fighting Lucas - hence the low kick that landed flush while his weight was on that leg - he reacted to it after it hit, precisely because his sense of range was off - my guess is probably intimidated by Lucas & to front foot heavy throughout & after that he really didn't do anything with intent & got tagged again.

The centerline is critical but it plays no bearing here...at least not that I can see.

What I'm saying is that a big problem arises when the centerline is not threatened with straight attacks. So, in part (imo significant), it's because he didn't threaten the centerline at all that his distancing is more problematic. The centerline is almost always critical. This is particularly the case when the opponent's arced attacks are better.

Example..

Takeda Kozo vs Masato

Masato threw roundhouses and sometimes led with hooks in exchange range, only to fail for the most part. The worst was when he decided he'd trade low-kicks with Takeda.

Where he found most success was when he hit the centerline and then comboed after or when he teeped. He also found some success with feinting a jab and coming with a hook or uppercut.

Another problem with Masato in this fight was that he couldn't defend on an exit properly, but nonetheless threatening the centerline halted a bulk of low-kicks from Takeda.

Masato also chose to stayed in the pocket, sometimes too long and was too comfortable with a trading range with Takeda. But this last point had more pros and cons- more easy to set off punches but relied on reflex to deal with Takeda's kicks, which failed on several occasions.


[YT]fQYfqg50C-k [/YT]

In other words, if Masato threw less roundhouses and utilized a slightly longer range at times, Takeda would've lost even more convincingly, which has everything to do with threatening the centerline.

 

[Azam]

^^
I'm quite well acquainted with the concept of the center-line theory, but all I'm trying to point out is the reason why he's probably not threatening the center-line....and that the center-line plays little if no bearing here precisely because he's not looking to threaten it. That is all.



If you want to watch Kozo Takeda footage I'd recommend fights before 2003, on entering MAX Takeda had just passed his prime. But I definitely agree with your analysis on Kozo & Masato - should have thrown more linear strikes right down the line but regardless he would still have to eat some of Takeda's kicks - Kozo is great at countering punches with low kicks especially on exits & upon entering. Funnily enough it is a very knockdownish thing to do wonder if this was the seidokaikan influence.

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

^^
I'm quite well acquainted with the concept of the center-line theory, but all I'm trying to point out is the reason why he's probably not threatening the center-line....and that the center-line plays little if no bearing here precisely because he's not looking to threaten it. That is all.



If you want to watch Kozo Takeda footage I'd recommend fights before 2003, on entering MAX Takeda had just passed his prime. But I definitely agree with your analysis on Kozo & Masato - should have thrown more linear strikes right down the line but regardless he would still have to eat some of Takeda's kicks - Kozo is great at countering punches with low kicks especially on exits & upon entering. Funnily enough it is a very knockdownish thing to do wonder if this was the seidokaikan influence.

It seems we have to agree to differ on the centerline influence, we've probably been shooting the same point at each other lol.

I'll definitely look at Takeda's footage more, as many agree that his prime was before MAX. Prior to MAX, did he fight anyone with good hands in particular? What's your favorite fight?

 

[Azam]

It seems we have to agree to differ on the centerline influence, we've probably been shooting the same point at each other lol.

I'll definitely look at Takeda's footage more, as many agree that his prime was before MAX. Prior to MAX, did he fight anyone with good hands in particular? What's your favorite fight?

Yeah I think we were both beating around the bush, trying to get one up on the other looool.


Well, not that I can recall - there is no doubt though he fought the best fighters of his time at his weight class, there was never anyone with great or exceptional hands though, some with decent & most average - he fought a very young Kaoklai if I recall.

I don't have a favourite fight per se but I prefer his earlier fights before 03 - namely the fights on his way to claiming the vacant Rajadamnern welterweight title because he was much more fluid & receptive compared to the stiff K1 Max version of himself, low kicking combo's were a thing of beauty back then more so than in Max precisely because he was younger, physically in his prime & much more reactive if that makes sense. In K1 Max he was old, much slower than he once was & not as aggressive - he still gave Masato, Buakaw, Souwer & other top tier fighters something to think about with the low kicks but his cross/low kick combos didn't have as much umph imo like they did in his prime.

For me though the p4p hardest low kicker is Hiroki Kurosawa & most technical I've ever seen is Hajime Kazumi - although they are knock-down fighters their technical knowhow is transferable but has to be adapted slightly some things though are transferable. People thought Filho had shins of steel & kicked hard in K1 but Kurosawa was a completely different beast - best word to describe him would be a bulldog - his low kicking posture was terrifying - remember him in Pride 1 against Igor at 35 (way past it), came into the fight with an injured knee, leg broke in the 1st round, but the guy kept kicking with his broken leg....he had mean spirit.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

Thanks for the history lesson, Azam! The Seiwakai dudes here in Brazil also love the liver hook + low kick combo

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

Thanks for the history lesson, Azam! The Seiwakai dudes here in Brazil also love the liver hook + low kick combo

Yeah seriously, got me looking into Jan Plas. Truly bred brilliance, shame the way he went out though. Didn't know karate was such a big influence on the dutch. Will look into more of the legends you speak of.

 

[Azam]

Thanks for the history lesson, Azam! The Seiwakai dudes here in Brazil also love the liver hook + low kick combo

NP mate. Karate has a very strong presence in Brazil.

Yeah seriously, got me looking into Jan Plas. Truly bred brilliance, shame the way he went out though. Didn't know karate was such a big influence on the dutch. Will look into more of the legends you speak of.

TBH, judging from the footage I've watched & what I've read through books and other resources - the mastermind behind Dutch kickboxing was Kenji Kurosaki & to some degree Jon Bluming (Jan Plas's teacher & the godfather of MMA in Europe) who was a kyokushin karateka & judoka - who introduced his students to Kurosaki through which Jan Plas was able to travel & train with Kurosaki in Meijiro Gym - much of what he taught Jan Plas, was unchanged imho - it's easily verifiable in comparing footage of fighters under Kurosaki at the time & later dutch legends some things are very similar.

Then over a period of time dutch kickboxing evolved by itself and morphed into something a bit different - Kurosaki's fighters were much more technically aware imo - Okabe & Shima less so, Fujiwara really was in a league of his own.

If I had to choose an all time favourite kickboxer it would undoubtedly be Toshio Fujiwara, perfect blend of everything.

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

Oh man, Fujiwara is another goldmine. I'm definitely going to do a breakdown on him. Thank you for the introduction, overloaded with things to study now haha.

 

[Azam]

Oh man, Fujiwara is another goldmine. I'm definitely going to do a breakdown on him. Thank you for the introduction, overloaded with things to study now haha.

A breakdown on the guy will be very difficult - not much footage of his fights - only like 2 or 3 littered on youtube but not great quality.

I managed to get hold of his documentary dvd a while back - it had like 6/7 fights on it - all of them not great quality if I'm honest, I collected my notes from that but it's hardly much to go on, but you can see the brilliance there. If I ever go to Japan to train a bit of KK at Kazumi's dojo - one of the places on my hit list is Fujiwara's dojo.

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

A breakdown on the guy will be very difficult - not much footage of his fights - only like 2 or 3 littered on youtube but not great quality.

I managed to get hold of his documentary dvd a while back - it had like 6/7 fights on it - all of them not great quality if I'm honest, I collected my notes from that but it's hardly much to go on, but you can see the brilliance there. If I ever go to Japan to train a bit of KK at Kazumi's dojo - one of the places on my hit list is Fujiwara's dojo.

Yeah, not too much to go on, but more than enough to highlight some of his brilliance. I'm fascinated by his bag work too haha.

[YT]18HbQKnDA3s[/YT]

 

[ssullivan80]

From the man himself.

 

[WillW]

Nice Job LK...

Who better to learn to kick from than Hoost. He was scary back in the day, just based on his leg kicks alone.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Good analysis and good on the crunch motion. I have worked with several great kickboxers in the past (regional title holders, pro coaches etc) and none of them ever taught me the crunching motion until I worked with a guy who actually had no pro back ground.

 

[LawrenceKenshin]

Awesome thread!

Thank you.

Nice Job LK...

Who better to learn to kick from than Hoost. He was scary back in the day, just based on his leg kicks alone.

Haha hello Will. He is indeed scary, with every technique.

Good analysis and good on the crunch motion. I have worked with several great kickboxers in the past (regional title holders, pro coaches etc) and none of them ever taught me the crunching motion until I worked with a guy who actually had no pro back ground.

Thanks Edison. Seeing the scrunch motion is less common, but it's definitely there amongst several great kickers.

I'll be updating this thread with more breakdown soon, especially since you guys and Rogan liked it.

 

[szJack]

So do we twist lead foot 45 to the outside before or after left hook?