England -Father battered to death with cricket bat by gang stealing his children's Bikes

[Gutter Chris]

but you guys have those same laws in place right? how do these criminals come into possession of guns then?

steal em and straw man purchases is my guess

 

[Gutter Chris]

I enjoy the sport of sjw and feminist bashing im afraid and i enjoy listening to people speak I dont agree with otherwise you get confirmation bias

Also you always hear crazy shit bout people so you check em out and see if they sound nuts

 

[Judge]

you do realise if guns were widespread they wouldve just shot him dont you? so the end result would be the same

you really need to stop cherry picking stories from the UK to use as some sort of evidence our society is crumbling

You do realize if guns were legal that guy could have had one. You do realize guns are the ultimate equalizer against gang violence?
Oh, wait, you live in the cUcK? You might not have those types of wits about you and for legitimate reason. Europe has been nerfing their residents for decades.


So what do you say when you see stories like: A woman and her kids were home, 2 armed men tried to break in, and the woman shot the intruders and they fled
????
Because this is a real story from the USA.

 

[Throwin Bombs]

you do realise if guns were widespread they wouldve just shot him dont you? so the end result would be the same

you really need to stop cherry picking stories from the UK to use as some sort of evidence our society is crumbling

Or maybe his use of a firearm in self defense would have prevented him from being beat to death? The argument is so dumb, a criminal will obtain a gun whether illegal or not. A criminal will harm someone with whatever they feel will best complete the task, hence the elevated stabbings.

People have the right to defend themselves and do not need to use tools that are inferior to the criminals.

 

[Fugazy]

Woah, @Greoric, you really do epitomise the general consensus of what every cunt believes an American to be like.
God bless you sir.
Lol

@MayhemMonkey how have you let him drag on such a B.sht debate for so long by basically only saying "no rebuttal" in every message??

Greoric, calm down, no one's gonna take your gun off you. You don't have to defend a weapon (that most right minded people want rid from the world) so vehemently....
Know why?
Not cos or your rights.
Not cos its all so much safer with them.
Quite simply, cos everyone's already got one so it's too Fking late!
Enjoy my friend, enjoy an officer greating you aggressively with his hand on his pistol on the side of the road, enjoy having hood rats running round shooting up one another, enjoy having burglars having their way with a Walmart pistol, enjoy people who get burgled dropping several bullets into the burglar and spending the rest of their life with murder on their consciounce...
We'll be all good over here having select officers with detailed training, high response times and a serious explenation required should they even touch the bloody thing with our bad bad criminals having the odd shank.

Good day.

Lol.

-1/10

 

[MadSquabbles500]

A person that can bludgeon an innocent person to death deserves a bullet.

deserves to be bludgeoned themselves.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

aye because assholes were getting drunk then glassing people(breaking the glass and stabbing people). God forbid they would want to cut down on people dying in their premises

Who is "they"? The prior quote posted said it was the police who wanted it. Or do they own the premises? Here's more from the article.

Mr Fraser's main pub, Hootananny, is currently unaffected by the rule, but Mad Hatters, his late-night venue upstairs, must serve drinks in plastic glasses.

He said the proposal to extend the use of plastic containers to pubs was "dreadful".

He said: "This is the nanny state at its worst and is putting out all the wrong signals.

"It is as if we cannot trust the adult of the species with glass.

"We give plastic to children and it should stop there.

"Just because there's one incident everybody is affected. That is how the criminals win."

While Mr Lawson, who is the chairman of Inverness Pubwatch, was against the extension of the policy to all bars, he would like to see it targeted at specific "high-risk" premises.

He said imposing plastic glasses on all premises would send out the wrong message.

Looks similar to a garden-variety gun control argument.

I support gun ownership because I believe in the right to self-defense (including family, community, and way of life). The best equalizer for size, skill, and health is a firearm. Depriving the right to effective self-defense is immoral. I also believe that the government serves the people, not the other way around. So if they're necessary for government to wield in the name of my protection then that's plenty of reason for the citizens to have them too. When human violence is eradicated I'll reconsider, but if that were the case why would I need to?

 

[Squarechoke]

Or maybe his use of a firearm in self defense would have prevented him from being beat to death? The argument is so dumb, a criminal will obtain a gun whether illegal or not. A criminal will harm someone with whatever they feel will best complete the task, hence the elevated stabbings.

People have the right to defend themselves and do not need to use tools that are inferior to the criminals.

Your argument would be stronger if the US didn't have several times higher gun related homicide rate (and homicide rate in general) compared to most other developed nations. The issue is more complicated than just pointing to one thing, but the abundance of guns in the US, combined with the more normalized thinking of that guns are for use against people, certainly are part of the cause. If people owning guns was the solution to any of this the US would have lower homicide rates, and generally lower crime, but that's obviously not the case.

The OP is just a case of someone trying to find a simple solution to a complex problem and using a cherry-picked case to prove it when it's clearly not accurately representing the entire crime picture.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

ok in this hypothetical situation lets say the dad takes out his gun to confront this group... what happens if they have guns?

this is a horrible story, but having guns wouldnt have prevented anything. All it would do is make our society more dangerous. Also everytime you post about the UK you talk about how its "horrible what is happening" here. These are isolated incidents that you are using also

A youth gang with guns likely wont just be going after bicycles. Especially if everyone is armed. Why risk it over a bicycle?

If youth gang had guns, and no one else did, youth gang will just approach the adults directly and shake them down. No need to steal a kids bicycle.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

I enjoy the sport of sjw and feminist bashing im afraid and i enjoy listening to people speak I dont agree with otherwise you get confirmation bias

Also you always hear crazy shit bout people so you check em out and see if they sound nuts

Ive heard enough from Tommy to understand what he's all about, and I refuse to listen to anyone who calls themselves "Sargon of Akkad".

 

[Throwin Bombs]

Your argument would be stronger if the US didn't have several times higher gun related homicide rate (and homicide rate in general) compared to most other developed nations. The issue is more complicated than just pointing to one thing, but the abundance of guns in the US, combined with the more normalized thinking of that guns are for use against people, certainly are part of the cause. If people owning guns was the solution to any of this the US would have lower homicide rates, and generally lower crime, but that's obviously not the case.

The OP is just a case of someone trying to find a simple solution to a complex problem and using a cherry-picked case to prove it when it's clearly not accurately representing the entire crime picture.

Ok lets factor this in, not every gun owner is always in possession of their firearm in times of need and not everyone in the US owns one. If all criminals knew that everyone was armed at all times it would greatly deter crime.

Next you need to factor in the perpetrators of gun violence and whom the victims are. How much is gang or drug related?

I wish I was there with a firearm to prevent that man from being beat to death and left in the street.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

You do realize if guns were legal that guy could have had one. You do realize guns are the ultimate equalizer against gang violence?
Oh, wait, you live in the cUcK? You might not have those types of wits about you and for legitimate reason. Europe has been nerfing their residents for decades.


So what do you say when you see stories like: A woman and her kids were home, 2 armed men tried to break in, and the woman shot the intruders and they fled
????
Because this is a real story from the USA.

is it? it just seems like something youve made up for the sake of this thread.

How many incidents do you hear about people being killed in their own homes due to the people breaking in having guns? I refuse to believe the word of the child that believes kids shouldnt be vaccinated until they give consent lol, you are evidence of Americas failing education system

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Who is "they"? The prior quote posted said it was the police who wanted it. Or do they own the premises? Here's more from the article.

and what do you think the bar prefers? people being stabbed in their premises or not?

 

[Wet Blanket]

No one thinks that

Lots of people seem to think that.

More guns = more problems.

Our local police just nabbed a haul of 70+ guns smuggled from Florida to be sold / distributed amongst gang members here in Toronto.

Thanks USA for having handguns just lying around for everyone.

 

[Lord Coke]

but you guys have those same laws in place right? how do these criminals come into possession of guns then?

na Im happy with the gun laws we have thanks very much

Crime is not really that high in the US. The vast majority of gun crime is young minority men shooting other non East Asian young minority men. If you are not a gang member the odds of you being attacked is pretty low. To the extent that there is a difference in crime there is a difference in demographics. Just like how Japan has very low crime compared to the UK.

If you are Asian like me the cops don't hassle you and the odds of being a victim of a crime is lower than in most countries in Europe. Its not the crime its the people.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Thanks USA for having handguns just lying around for everyone.

Youre welcome

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Crime is not really that high in the US. The vast majority of gun crime is young Non East Asian minority men shooting other non East Asian young minority men. If you are not a gang member the odds if you being attacked is pretty low. To the extent that there is a difference in crime there is a difference in demographics. Just like how Japan has very low crime compared to the UK.

in comparison to the UK its really high, only recently has there been an uptick in violence in the UK(more specifically, England) which makes everyone in America think somehow our societies are comparable

they are not, the UK is a far less violent society

 

[MayhemMonkey]

I still dont get why Americans value a simple possession so much? Having a gun doesnt make you safe, in the same way it doesnt make you tough. Its designed for killing, not for defense.

go learn some martial arts if you are worried about defending yourself

 

[Squarechoke]

Ok lets factor this in, not every gun owner is always in possession of their firearm in times of need and not everyone in the US owns one. If all criminals knew that everyone was armed at all times it would greatly deter crime.

Next you need to factor in the perpetrators of gun violence and whom the victims are. How much is gang or drug related?

I wish I was there with a firearm to prevent that man from being beat to death and left in the street.

There's a good risk it would deter small crime and shift it towards more severe crime. That's an effect we've seen in cases where punishments are greatly increased.

The perpetrators of homicides are more heavily located among criminals in all nations so that doesn't change anything for the US in the comparison. I don't want to say too much without it being backed by statistics, but I would say that the US stands out in school shootings and other mass shooting events aimed at civilians. There's a pretty good possibility that gun homicide is spread more to the general public in the US than in the other developed nations.

I wish I could have been there as well, even if I didn't have a gun, but that's not really very relevant to the matter of crime and the effect of guns.

 

[Lord Coke]

I still dont get why Americans value a simple possession so much? Having a gun doesnt make you safe, in the same way it doesnt make you tough. Its designed for killing, not for defense.

go learn some martial arts if you are worried about defending yourself

I am very good at Brazilian Jiu jitsu having trained it over a decade. I used to compete in muay thai as well along with some other stuff. All of that is not going to protect me against a pack of super predators playing out their Clockwork Orange fantasies. And it certainly is not going to do anything if I have to take on the government. My family escaped South Vietnam. Some had to fight off Muslim Indonesian pirates and or communists to get to the U.S with rifles while on the boats.
Martial arts is great but my family history and my military service has taught me that you always have to be vigilant, well armed and prepared for the worst.