Elizabeth Warren Releases DNA Test Showing "Strong Evidence" of Native American Ancestry

[Jack V Savage]

Sure on Mir we can all agree it’s a bad but supportable and easily interpretable judgment call, her being listed as Cherokee based on that smidgeon of dna is an even worse one, not really supportable, and open to easy misinterpretation. He beats no.2 and becomes no 2, she has a great great great grand parent on one side that is x and therefore she lists herself (let’s herself be listed) as x, is a step further.

I concede fhat I don’t know that the misleading is intentional, I doubt it is, so I wont accuse her of that. It’s either misleading or just a tad stupid on her part, even subjective judgement calls can have varying degrees of credability to them.

Well, Mir was unranked before that fight (on the edge of losing status as a major promotion fighter before beating Hardonk and then Brock, but still wouldn't be on a list until you got to the point where you pretty much used up everyone you've heard of who is still hanging around). But sure, subjective calls can have different degrees of credibility and that one is weak, but the source of it was never hidden. She's fully vindicated on the facts, though (and note that it was in doubt, and the interpretation of the test common among partisans here is not accurate). If you want to criticize her for being overzealous, that's fine. But much of the discourse on the subject here is polluted with falsities.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Those claims are separate. They can't be literally the same and not logically equivalent.

Sigh. They're literally the same in that they are part of the same claim.

Claiming to have a minority ancestor is not the same as claiming to be a minority. I've clearly shown how they aren't and you've clearly done nothing to show they are. Give it up or show the following to be true.

She claimed to be a minority on the basis of having a minority ancestor. It's not two separate claims. It's the same (i.e., part of one) claim. If you acknowledge that, and you have, the argument is over and you're accepting the fact that she was vindicated by the test.

 

[DIDM]

1/32 ... man, I'm from CT and I can tell you, it don't take much. 1/16 gets you some of that casino money.


Interesting. So, being a white guy name staring O'..., I should expect a DNA test to come back as.... anything... you know, mostly Chinese and African dissent is just as likely as English and Irish.

Right. Because that's what happens.

She’s .09% less than 1/10 of 1 percent, hardly registrable

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Sigh. They're literally the same in that they are part of the same claim.



She claimed to be a minority on the basis of having a minority ancestor. It's not two separate claims. It's the same (i.e., part of one) claim. If you acknowledge that, and you have, the argument is over and you're accepting the fact that she was vindicated by the test.

Tires and steering wheels are part of the same car, that hardly makes them literally the same.

If they were the same claim this would be a sound argument. It's not. Is it?

Premise 1: Warren has and was told about a distant relative who was Native American.
Premise 2: Anyone who has and was told about a distant Native American ancestor is a minority.
Conclusion: Warren is a minority.

They aren't even the same in that "one part" accompanied the other in her directory listings. Anyone looking at those listings was simply being told she's a minority. It's not a fact she's a minority, even though we're taking as fact her having a NA ancestor.

 

[Gandhi]

Well, Mir was unranked before that fight (on the edge of losing status as a major promotion fighter before beating Hardonk and then Brock, but still wouldn't be on a list until you got to the point where you pretty much used up everyone you've heard of who is still hanging around). But sure, subjective calls can have different degrees of credibility and that one is weak, but the source of it was never hidden. She's fully vindicated on the facts, though (and note that it was in doubt, and the interpretation of the test common among partisans here is not accurate). If you want to criticize her for being overzealous, that's fine. But much of the discourse on the subject here is polluted with falsities.

For sure its polluted. It's a toxic topic of conversation on so many levels. I had to correct someone the other day that she did not lie on an application, just that she really had horrible logic and a laughable response. I get that her accuser in chief was calling her a lier, not mearly saying the basis of her claim was retarded. I am saying the former (it was also offensive to some), while concurrently also saying that most people wont care that she is FOS because she was a lier vs just had crappy basis for a claim. That gives Trump a political win even if he is not correct that she lied.

 

[Gandhi]

Tires and steering wheels are part of the same car, that hardly makes them literally the same.

If they were the same claim this would be a sound argument. It's not. Is it?



They aren't even the same in that "one part" accompanied the other in her directory listings. Anyone looking at those listings was simply being told she's a minority. It's not a fact she's a minority, even though we're taking as fact her having a NA ancestor.

Maybe we can just all agree she has really stupid logic as opposed to being an outright lier?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Tires and steering wheels are part of the same car, that hardly makes them literally the same.

Right, but a conditional to a statement is part of the statement, and it is misleading to separate them.

If they were the same claim this would be a sound argument. It's not. Is it?

Those are two separate statements that you are saying that I am calling equivalent even though I explicitly told you more than one that I am not. That is clearly dishonest on your part. You can disagree with me without lying about what I'm saying, can't you? My claim is that she said she was a minority because of her distant NA ancestors. Her picture was available, she didn't mislead anyone about her parentage, etc. It's a question equivalent to "how much tea has to go in my water before I call it a glass of tea?" She was saying that because of the (small) amount she had, she was a glass of tea. There was no misleading of anyone, though one can certainly question her judgment.

They aren't even the same in that "one part" accompanied the other in her directory listings. Anyone looking at those listings was simply being told she's a minority. It's not a fact she's a minority, even though we're taking as fact her having a NA ancestor.

It's not a fact because it's a judgment call. The factual claim upon which the judgment was based was that she was told she had a distant NA ancestor, which was confirmed with the test.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Maybe we can just all agree she has really stupid logic as opposed to being an outright lier?

I don't have an opinion as to any level of intent on her part to deceive. I'm merely addressing this obviously false statement from Jack.

True statements like Warren only claimed to have a distant NA ancestor.

She didn't only claim that. Jack could acknowledge that but instead (presuming to maintain a narrative that's less damaging to her) he's arguing that having a distant NA ancestor necessarily qualifies one as a minority (which she claimed to be).

It's all right here.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Double post.

 

[Limit Smasher]

Imagine a life where you contribute hundreds of posts to a thread defending Elizabeth Warren for being 1/1024 Native American and benefitting from it.

Do none of you have children to take care of and spend time with?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Maybe we can just all agree she has really stupid logic as opposed to being an outright lier?

I wouldn't say "really stupid." I'd say that she was an Oklahoma-born white girl who liked the idea that there was something more exotic in her 20-plus years ago.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I don't have an opinion as to any level of intent on her part to deceive. I'm merely addressing this obviously false statement from Jack.

There's no obviously false statement from. You're just making stuff up and attributing to me so that you can claim that (dishonestly). Do better.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

My claim is that she said she was a minority because of her distant NA ancestors.

Not in dispute. This is in dispute.

True statements like Warren only claimed to have a distant NA ancestor.

Are you insisting this statement right here to be true or not?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Not in dispute. This is in dispute.

Are you insisting this statement right here to be true or not?

In context, yes. The statement is that that was the extent of her claim (as opposed to you falsely suggesting that she claimed to be full-blooded NA).

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

In context, yes. The statement is that that was the extent of her claim (as opposed to you falsely suggesting that she claimed to be full-blooded NA).

How does that claim extend to the point where it covers her listing herself as a minority? You just admitted it was a matter of her own judgment, but earlier you claimed that minority status necessarily followed from her ancestor claim. It's this simple, either everyone with a distant NA relative is a minority or claiming to be a minority is a separate claim from having a distant NA relative.

You can't even honestly say she considered herself one because (as you pointed out) she never listed herself that way on any applications or legal forms. Kinda curious, presuming she identifies as NA. She said she did that to meet folks with other NA roots. She did not say she did it because she considers herself to be NA.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2012/...rity-to-meet-people-but-story-doesnt-hold-up/

“I listed myself in the directory in the hopes that it might mean that I would be invited to a luncheon, a group something that might happen with people who are like I am. Nothing like that ever happened, that was clearly not the use for it and so I stopped checking it off,” said Warren….

That bullshit in parentheses is a lie. Quote me.

 

[Gandhi]

I wouldn't say "really stupid." I'd say that she was an Oklahoma-born white girl who liked the idea that there was something more exotic in her 20-plus years ago.

White girls wants to be exotic = silly, crowing about being able to prove that an almost inconsequential fact that inspired the fantasy is true = stupid imho.

I don't have an opinion as to any level of intent on her part to deceive. I'm merely addressing this obviously false statement from Jack.



She didn't only claim that. Jack could acknowledge that but instead (presuming to maintain a narrative that's less damaging to her) he's arguing that having a distant NA ancestor necessarily qualifies one as a minority (which she claimed to be).

It's all right here.

I think he is saying the she only claimed to be a minority based on her having a distant relative. But I'm not going to try parse your argument with him. The simple basis for her claim is silly, why even justify it, correct the lies told about her and move on.

 

[Gandhi]

l o l I think I need to done on this one.

 

[BAM]

lol at JVS and cubo arguing about this for a week across several threads.

 

[DIDM]

Neither does or has she. She just mentioned that she'd heard she had a distant NA ancestor.

She sure did use it to try and build favor

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I think he is saying the she only claimed to be a minority based on her having a distant relative.

That's absolutely correct and was never in dispute. Nowhere was it suggested, stipulated, asserted that she considered anything else when claiming to be a minority.

Did you read the post I've linked below? It'll take all of two minutes. People seem to be wanting to chime in on this without taking any time to understand what Jack said that I'm disputing (and that he's steadfastly defended). He's misleading everyone by reasserting a truthful claim over and over, as if that's my bone of contention.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/e...rican-ancestry.3849819/page-51#post-145865663