Effective Aikido?

[Charlitos1988]

As many will know in an aggressive environment in which the partner will not cooperate to do the technique but he refuses or hits you the moment you grab the wrist is very difficult to make projections of Aikido.

Is different when you talk about the throws of Judo and wrestling.
When we see Olympics or World Championships the techniques do not go exactly as when training in class, that is, varies from the strain but still ends throwing.

In contrast, in Aikido technique is always pure and clean, my hypothesis goes here: Due to the complexity of Aikido that requires its throwing techniques be done exactly as they are practiced (differing Judo which does not need to do perfect technique to throw).
That is, if the adversary changes a little the position of the body or does not have enough space to apply the projection, this will no longer be realized (in Aikido).

My idea for the throws of Aikido only would serve to finish: when your opponent is already beaten or confused and does not resist the throw.
In order to do that an example would be an eye jab, a throat chop, kick to the balls, etc.

As I repeat this is only a hypothesis and would like to know what you think of it.

 

[Calibur]

3/10

 

[Steelviper]

My idea for the throws of Aikido only would serve to finish: when your opponent is already beaten or confused and does not resist the throw.

Doesn't sound like a good sell if it were true... "here's some techniques you can use, but only if you've already beaten your opponent." Finishing moves, ala Mortal Kombat?

Roy Dean has been quoted as saying that Aikido is a lot more effective if you have a black belt in BJJ.

 

[akharon]

There's a huge difference between someone being injured and prone to other attacks and having the resistance of a wet noodle. There's a saying, you dance with the one that brought you. If resistance based moves got you to the point that you were a second from knocking a guy into the next world, why spend the effort on a +3 combo kick? It's not a video game, it's a fight. Save the endzone celebration for after the ref pulls you off.

 

[Charlitos1988]

Well I mean on the streets, you can broke his wrist or arm so he will never attack you again (at least some months) and I think is better than a simple KO (where you have a headache a week or a month max).

 

[akharon]

Well I mean on the streets, you can broke his wrist or arm so he will never attack you again (at least some months) and I think is better than a simple KO (where you have a headache a week or a month max).

Yes, a broken arm clearly stops a fight *cough* Rich Franklin, Tim Sylvia, anyone drunk or on stimulants such as cocaine or pcp, anyone pissed off *cough*

If you think that breaking someone's arm stops him from coming back to get you within a month, you're on something, because if he's coming back a few weeks later, he's coming back with friends, weapons, or both. The best way to get out of a situation is to incapacitate your attacker for a short while so that you might run away. If this is a KO, so be it. If you must break his arm to choke him out, that's fine too, but don't just count on pain to stop an altercation.

 

[stimbox]

Try Tomiki Aikido it's more like Judo.

 

[GingerNinja]

Most styles don't practice against a resistant UKE. Shodokan (also known as tomiki) does. As we have competition, and as we would like to win these competitions, letting yourself be thrown around is somewhat counter-productive. So the techniques based in our Randori no Kata are all perfectly viable as throws, takedowns and pins against a resistant opponent. We train for competitions and at different levels of resistance in order to perfect technique and to learn what is useful and what is not depending on the size of your opponent, positioning, counter throws and locks etc etc

So in the end a lot of throws end up like Judo style throws, and the pins and locks while not fight winning are good for restraining without injuring you or your opponent. Which is the basis of Aikidio, and as such the techniques and principles are adopted by Police forces worldwide for restraining the Saturday nights would be tough guy. and please don't start that shit "...but but.. against a guy with training!" in my experience I've never seen a fellow martial artist start any shit. End shit yes, but never start shit.

 

[the heed]

Seagal approves

 

[Waldorf]

As many will know in an aggressive environment in which the partner will not cooperate to do the technique but he refuses or hits you the moment you grab the wrist is very difficult to make projections of Aikido.

Is different when you talk about the throws of Judo and wrestling.
When we see Olympics or World Championships the techniques do not go exactly as when training in class, that is, varies from the strain but still ends throwing.

In contrast, in Aikido technique is always pure and clean, my hypothesis goes here: Due to the complexity of Aikido that requires its throwing techniques be done exactly as they are practiced (differing Judo which does not need to do perfect technique to throw).
That is, if the adversary changes a little the position of the body or does not have enough space to apply the projection, this will no longer be realized (in Aikido).

My idea for the throws of Aikido only would serve to finish: when your opponent is already beaten or confused and does not resist the throw.
In order to do that an example would be an eye jab, a throat chop, kick to the balls, etc.

As I repeat this is only a hypothesis and would like to know what you think of it.

A lot of Aikido schools pracitce atemi (strikes) to set up throws. In princple the strike, or usually Uke's movement to avoid the strike is what creates the off balancing. The big projections and levatating throws work in Aikido because the Uke is very off balance and thus the throws appear effortless. Sort of like a sweep works by really breaking you opponents posture, if you really gets his hips over yours, you can basically roll them over.

In practice, I haven't seen strikes, or strike evading lead to that kind of unbalancing. Certainly you could overwhelm someone with attacks into a state of unbalance and confusion, but then just about everything works.

Also, none of the Aikido 1/2 dozen or so schools I trained at put a lot of time into Atemi, some limited pad striking every few months maybe.

 

[redaxe]

...is an oxymoron.

 

[lechien]

I rather train to thrown and choke out my training partners than training a "maybe" break wrist techniques.

 

[GingerNinja]

I rather train to thrown and choke out my training partners than training a "maybe" break wrist techniques.

Wrist locks are a very minimal part of competitive aikido, infact there's only 4 in our that apparently should work in competition... one definatly does.. i had it done to me mid comp >< couldn't believe it either.. the twat. but anyway..

Fuck the Haters. I truly despise the boards lack of closed mindedness sometimes, if its not BJJ they hate it, occasionally Judo is given props. I guess Aikido due to its several different styles and practices (my style is looked down upon for actually having competition) is hated because people only know the Seagall shit where they don't train with resistant UKE and don't actually compete. but what do I know.. I only compete in national competitions and shit and train with members of the British team (who currently count the current world champion in our ranks.)

 

[lechien]

links or vids of your style of Aikido would be interesting.

 

[GingerNinja]

links or vids of your style of Aikido would be interesting.

there's not a huge amount of them on youtube tbh, which is irritating because I can't find anything to watch myself. Most of it's Kata or badly recorded clips.

YouTube - Shodokan Open 2009 Men's Randori 2 of 2

that's about the best on there and its not even that good. No one ever seems to have camera's on them to record stuff. Despite the fact every ones generally sitting right there at mat side.

As you can see, it looks a bit like messy judo.

 

[lechien]

Shodokan = Tomiki.

Now it makes sense.

How big is this style compare to Aikido?

 

[GingerNinja]

Shodokan = Tomiki.

Now it makes sense.

How big is this style compare to Aikido?

I hate using this term as a ginger myself, but we are the red headed step child. Some styles won't let our practitioners inside their dojo's. So we won't need other styles hating on us, we get enough internal hate as is. Its not huge, Aikikai and Yoshinkan are much more widely available I believe. Even on Aikiweb you don't see a lot of us. Depressing really. The competitions are great fun. Instead everyone would rather discuss religious significance etc, personally i have much more fun competeting and training for that than i do on the philosophical discussions that plague the other styles.

 

[nefti]

Fuck the Haters. I truly despise the boards lack of closed mindedness sometimes, if its not BJJ they hate it, occasionally Judo is given props. I guess Aikido due to its several different styles and practices (my style is looked down upon for actually having competition) is hated because people only know the Seagall shit where they don't train with resistant UKE and don't actually compete. but what do I know.. I only compete in national competitions and shit and train with members of the British team (who currently count the current world champion in our ranks.)

It seems as if you yourself admit that you are a very small minorty of aikido practioners. So people are not "hating" at all now are they?

 

[GingerNinja]

It seems as if you yourself admit that you are a very small minorty of aikido practioners. So people are not "hating" at all now are they?

unfortunately we get tarred with the same brush. Because we are a small sub-sect and despite us having many things in common with Judo.. (Tomiki being a Kano student as well as a Ueshiba student) we get called shit too. So I try to defend at least my style the best I can, but as people use the blanket statement that all Aikido is shit and fake, unfortunately that insults me also as an Shodokan Aikidoka.

 

[lechien]

To be honest, Tomiki should have just name his own style and move on.