EBI 12

[SummerStriker]

I watched the quarter finals on tonight. It was pretty great.

I thought Gabi McComb was the best from the first match I saw. Wasn't surprised she made it into the finals.

Was it a mistake for her to try back mount again? It seems like if you are on a time crunch, the spider web is the better bet for a faster submission.

 

[vcmmafan]

How was CJJ tonight?

 

[SummerStriker]

How was CJJ tonight?

I'd never watched it before. It was pretty good. The girl that one had a nasty "ultra kimura."

 

[vcmmafan]

I'd never watched it before. It was pretty good. The girl that one had a nasty "ultra kimura."

That's good to hear. The last time I saw CJJ it was entertaining.

Mr. Bravo intends on creating a CJJ Worlds.

Take that GJJ

 

[kenetics]

EBI rules are terrible lol. Guys are starting to wait for overtime to be put in the best positions.

Sometimes I ask myself if the peson would ever get to these positions to start with... and not given to them.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I watched the quarter finals on tonight. It was pretty great.

I thought Gabi McComb was the best from the first match I saw. Wasn't surprised she made it into the finals.

Was it a mistake for her to try back mount again? It seems like if you are on a time crunch, the spider web is the better bet for a faster submission.

She completely stalled out Talita Alencar in the semis to get to the OT-- did not even try to engage. Way too much of that in this event, and too many overtimes that last as long as the regulation period. I think the OT concept is fine, but it just gets interminable the way it removes the ability to follow submissions through transitions (like "escaping" to mount). Makes trying to win via riding time that much more likely

 

[SummerStriker]

She completely stalled out Talita Alencar in the semis to get to the OT-- did not even try to engage. Way too much of that in this event, and too many overtimes that last as long as the regulation period. I think the OT concept is fine, but it just gets interminable the way it removes the ability to follow submissions through transitions (like "escaping" to mount). Makes trying to win via riding time that much more likely

That doesn't bother me at all though. If you can win by stalling, you should stall. It's not her fault that the rules support her strategy. The other girl should have done a better job engaging.

 

[closequarters]

 

[trustdoesntrust]

That doesn't bother me at all though. If you can win by stalling, you should stall. It's not her fault that the rules support her strategy. The other girl should have done a better job engaging.

Well there's stalling and there's "we both know you're better than me so I'm just going to disengage for 10 minutes because the rules will reward me with back control and a body triangle."

But sure, I agree it's not her fault; it's the rules that need to be changed. You can't have both an action-packed, sub-only event while also allowing stalling + riding time to be very viable paths to victory.

 

[SummerStriker]

Well there's stalling and there's "we both know you're better than me so I'm just going to disengage for 10 minutes because the rules will reward me with back control and a body triangle."

But sure, I agree it's not her fault; it's the rules that need to be changed. You can't have both an action-packed, sub-only event while also allowing stalling + riding time to be very viable paths to victory.

I agree, other than that she was better than the other girl and it was proven in the only way that matters - she won.

It'd be like racing someone a mile, getting ahead of him for the first 500', getting passed, and losing by 30 seconds... then bitching that you are actually faster than the other person and that the unfair rules of the race allowed the coward to pace their effort. Go run a shorter fucking race if that's your attitude.

 

[kpoz12]

....why not just do MMA instead of frikken Slap Jitsu?

 

[mataleaos]

She completely stalled out Talita Alencar in the semis to get to the OT-- did not even try to engage. Way too much of that in this event, and too many overtimes that last as long as the regulation period. I think the OT concept is fine, but it just gets interminable the way it removes the ability to follow submissions through transitions (like "escaping" to mount). Makes trying to win via riding time that much more likely

There is going to be an EBI one day where we get an overtime that lasts for fucking ever. And I mean forever. I think they should address it before it happens. One day there's gonna be someone that rides the back for a 45 minute stretch or something insane, and it's going to turn people off.

People are getting better and better at riding the back because of EBI rules, and I think there should be some sort of time limit on how long you can ride it. Now, that may make the problem worse and encourage people to just try and hit that max time instead of going for the finish.

I'm not sure. But I could see allowing infinite ride time to cause a problem in the format of trying to keep an event at 3 hours or so.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

There is going to be an EBI one day where we get an overtime that lasts for fucking ever. And I mean forever. I think they should address it before it happens. One day there's gonna be someone that rides the back for a 45 minute stretch or something insane, and it's going to turn people off.

People are getting better and better at riding the back because of EBI rules, and I think there should be some sort of time limit on how long you can ride it. Now, that may make the problem worse and encourage people to just try and hit that max time instead of going for the finish.

I'm not sure. But I could see allowing infinite ride time to cause a problem in the format of trying to keep an event at 3 hours or so.

The Gabi Romero/ Kristina Barlaans overtime was well over 10 minutes, and I think Romero only opened up because she'd already racked up several minutes of control time. I think that, clearly, the limited OT positions (making mount=escape, the spiderweb starting fully static, disallowing continuations) have informed competitors that locking on a body triangle and then stalling is by far the best strategy.

 

[JenStark]

EBI overtime riding is limited to 3 min per round.

 

[argy-bargy]

There is a huge difference between stalling in EBI and stalling in IBJJF rules, which is that in the IFBJJ rules, someone typically stalls when they are winning by points and want to run the time out.

On the other hand, in EBI someone is going to stall when they know they are gonna get lit up by their opponent. They are being defensive and want to stall at the same time which makes it so damn irksome to watch. Its straight up cowardice. Do they even issue penalties/warnings for not engaging in EBI?

I think that no matter the ruleset, BJJ'ers gonna find a way to stall. Not much we can do about it, right?

 

[yetanother]

I think that no matter the ruleset, BJJ'ers gonna find a way to stall. Not much we can do about it, right?

Other than actually giving away penalties for it? In both EBI and IBJJF there is often a huge incentive to do it and no real penalty.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

There is a huge difference between stalling in EBI and stalling in IBJJF rules, which is that in the IFBJJ rules, someone typically stalls when they are winning by points and want to run the time out.

On the other hand, in EBI someone is going to stall when they know they are gonna get lit up by their opponent. They are being defensive and want to stall at the same time which makes it so damn irksome to watch. Its straight up cowardice. Do they even issue penalties/warnings for not engaging in EBI?

I think that no matter the ruleset, BJJ'ers gonna find a way to stall. Not much we can do about it, right?

I think EBI has a different burden because they have an outspoken mission to create an exciting, submission-focused event. So that's why it's so mystifying to see the core contradiction in their ruleset: it's sub-only, but it also incentivizes stalling to OT and an awkward definition of "riding time" as a path to victory. When you take a step back, you see that the big thing they've removed from IBJJF isnt the stalling, but rather guard passing, sweeps, and takedowns as primary paths to victory. Further, they don't allow top-friendly attacks like slams that are commonplace in other open rules events. It is frankly hard not to see all this as evidence of a bias toward Eddie Bravo's style of Jiu-jitsu, which deemphasizes passing and TDs, but has an affinity for a clamping style of "riding."

 

[aunshi189]

I'm trying to find time this weekend to watch the (very long) EBI 12.

In terms of the EBI rules I'm not a fan of their tie breaking system, but I can't think of any ruleset that would eliminate stalling completely. I do quite like the variety in rulesets around.

 

[SummerStriker]

I'm trying to find time this weekend to watch the (very long) EBI 12.

In terms of the EBI rules I'm not a fan of their tie breaking system, but I can't think of any ruleset that would eliminate stalling completely. I do quite like the variety in rulesets around.

I've had an idea for some rules for a while.

Imagine a five minute round. You can win the game by getting a submission or scoring the most points. Points are awarded in five ways.

Pushing someone out of the ring so that they fall out first scores one point.

A deep submission attempt scores one point.

Riding scores one point every continuous sixty seconds.

A takedown scores 1 point.

Pass the guard of someone who pulls guard, within thirty seconds of the pull, scores one point.

If someone gets ahead on points and starts running away, you can back them up to the edge and push them out. If they want to stall, they have to attempt to fight from the neutral position without backing up.

If someone gets on top, the bottom guy has to get up or start losing points.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I've had an idea for some rules for a while.

Imagine a five minute round. You can win the game by getting a submission or scoring the most points. Points are awarded in five ways.

Pushing someone out of the ring so that they fall out first scores one point.

A deep submission attempt scores one point.

Riding scores one point every continuous sixty seconds.

A takedown scores 1 point.

Pass the guard of someone who pulls guard, within thirty seconds of the pull, scores one point.

If someone gets ahead on points and starts running away, you can back them up to the edge and push them out. If they want to stall, they have to attempt to fight from the neutral position without backing up.

If someone gets on top, the bottom guy has to get up or start losing points.

I have seen similar examples of this ruleset in some newish events-- one is called the Grappling Pro Championships, or something like that. This is a match between Dj Jackson and Vagner Rocha under those rules:

I like what the out of bounds rule adds, and I like that the variety of points encourage you to keep advancing, The only real problem is that the rounds and the quixotic scoring disrupt the flow of the match, you see here where just as Vagner finally gets control the round ends and they restart.