Dutch FM drops multicultural truth bomb...

[regmma123]

Literally my neighborhood in Long Island. It's half Italian (the original people) and half Indians. And it's safe enough that my family and I go for walks at midnight. Upper middle class neighborhood and no racism issues. You all do realize that normal, coexisting people exist in this world too?

I live in an area that’s very mixed between whites and blacks, and I walk my dog at all hours of the night

 

[Benjamin Burton]

Maybe you don't know very many people? I'm black and went to almost entirely white schools growing up and I felt totally comfortable. I've also invited non-black friends to events full of black people and they felt fine.

Are you right handed? Would you feel uncomfortable in a room full of left handed people? Would you feel uncomfortable in a room full of people who didn't have the same hair color as you?

Eh this doesn't sound genuine. I live part time in south Georgia and I avoid black areas at all costs. It's dangerous as fuck. That's just no bullshit. In really racially diverse areas like South Georgia, people do stick to their own.

 

[Leagon]

Eh this doesn't sound genuine. I live part time in south Georgia and I avoid black areas at all costs. It's dangerous as fuck. That's just no bullshit. In really racially diverse areas like South Georgia, people do stick to their own.

Is this sarcasm? I can't tell.

 

[Benjamin Burton]

Is this sarcasm? I can't tell.

You even said you went to an almost all white school. Try living somewhere where it's 50 50 and see how great it is.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Are you right handed? Would you feel uncomfortable in a room full of left handed people?

Uh, yes of course. No G-d fearing Christian would dare use his left hand over his right so obviously I'd be in a room of devil worshipers.

 

[Crystaline Entity]

Maybe you don't know very many people? I'm black and went to almost entirely white schools growing up and I felt totally comfortable. I've also invited non-black friends to events full of black people and they felt fine.

Are you right handed? Would you feel uncomfortable in a room full of left handed people? Would you feel uncomfortable in a room full of people who didn't have the same hair color as you?

That is an example of a learned response and getting used to something that goes against natural instinct. I bet if you think to when you first started school, you felt very uncomfortable around all those white kids until you got know them. Prejudice is a natural instinct, which is much different than racism, which is learned automatic hate.
You said:

"I've also invited non-black friends to events full of black people and they felt fine."
They went with you and were invited by you. Would they have felt just as fine if they had shown up to the same event on their own, uninvited and by themselves? I cant be 100% sure, but I would guess that they would not be quite as comfortable as they were being invited and going with you.

I am right handed. I probably would feel some level of discomfort being in a room of all left handed people. It would be the same with hair color. If I was the only redhead thrown into a room full of blondes, there would initially be some discomfort. Human beings are social creatures and we have an instinct to want to fit into a group and be accepted by the tribe. We don't like to feel different or left out.

If you awoke aboard a UFO surrounded by ET's, would you be "totally comfortable"?[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] I'm not saying that we can't get past minor differences, such as skin color(even if they were green). I'm just saying that some level of prejudice is actually a completely natural instinct.[/FONT]​

 

[Feniamin]

Thank you.

What a stupid fuckin comment by the PM. Almost every nation that has existed in the last several hundred years, at least, had to unify different ethnic, language, and racial groups. All across the Caucus region, all across Asia, all across Africa and South America, there are dozens of multicultural countries.

When Westerners complain about multiculturalism, they don't mean multiculturalism as it is defined and has been practiced everywhere, they mean that they don't like Muslims or Africans or whatever other group.

No problem.
Well, I've read that Abkhazian Negroes in Georgia, for example, lives there for centuries and still face prejudice/discrimination. Also, I think Armenians (citizens of Armenia and ethnic Armenians) can't enter Azerbaijan. And I think in all this ex-USSR countries it's mostly Whites+Asians+Middle-Easternerns (Jews, Kurds, Assyrians and others) living together.
I mean, some multicultural countries are only multicultural to a some degree, like Georgians might be ok with their children marrying Russians or Ukrainians or Macedonians, but not ok if their children wants to marry a Negro from Abkhazia.

 

[waiguoren]

As long as you don't act like the cohabitation between the two is better than any other country than America, than COOL.

Again, you might be right. I didn't argue otherwise.

There is definitely more cohabitation between races in Singapore than in the US, but that's because of forced integration.

edit: Your posts reek of someone that has never stepped foot outside of the US.

Your posts reek of someone who is really proud to have lived outside of the US---so proud that you don't realize the person you're bragging to has lived abroad much longer than you.

 

[waiguoren]

I don't know how you can say this without addressing the very real history of segregation in this country as a key factor.

Why are you changing the topic from description of the rate of cohabitation to explanations for the phenomenon? My statements were correct.

Since you insist: there are over 200 nations in the world. Other than Singapore (forced cohabitation between Chinese and Indians), which nations have higher rates of cohabitation than the US? If you can't think of many, could it be that the legacy of legal segregation is not the main factor?

Suburbs were specifically designed to be racially segregated enclaves for whites

There was no central planner. Whites chose to move away from riots and crime in the inner cities. As the map I posted above shows, the races still aren't cohabiting for the most part, even in the inner cities. They form islands of one race, with a few exceptions.

Besides, you're insisting on a narrow definition of cohabitation

True, but it's also the most fundamental definition: who do people choose to live with and make families with? Unless something has changed radically in the past few years, the answer is clear:

How can you say that living in multicultural city doesn't count as cohabitation?

Because that’s not the definition of the term, and it’s not how the term is typically used. Here are the relevant definitions from Merriam Webster (I removed a third definition for being irrelevant):

1 : to live together as or as if a married couple
• They cohabited in a small apartment.
2 : to live together or in company
• buffaloes cohabiting with crossbred cows
• —Biol. Abstracts

In any major city people spend much of their time outside their neighborhoods and interacting with people of other neighborhoods

I wonder why most of them don’t choose to cohabit with people of other races though.

The politician quoted in the OP explicitly mentions society in her answer, in America we very much live in a multicultural society even if some of our neighborhoods aren't.

She mentioned cohabitation within a multi-cultural society. She argues that it doesn’t work out. Ours is certainly a multi-cultural society, but there is not much cohabitation of different races. Therefore the US is not a counter-example to her statement.

 

[kenetics]

'Triggered' doesn't even describe the shitstorm he's kicked off. And all he did was tell the truth. Crazy times are these.

Peaceful multicultural societies don’t exist, Dutch FM

“I have asked my ministry this and I will pose the question here as well,” Blok can be heard saying in the video. “Give me an example of a multi-ethnic or a multi-cultural society, in which the original population still lives, and where there is a peaceful cohabitation. I don’t know one.”
https://www.rt.com/news/433645-dutch-fm-multicultural-societies/

I am sure some disagree, but the facts are still the facts.

This coming from a Caucasian right? Lol.

 

[dontsnitch]

This coming from a Caucasian right? Lol.

Every other post from you is complaining about white people. What's up with that? Why you so mad?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Why are you changing the topic from description of the rate of cohabitation to explanations for the phenomenon? My statements were correct.

Because you said that people choose to live among their own. Of course to some extent that is true but its also relevant to point out that for a long time it wasn't really a choice for black people as much as it was an imposition. In a country like Brazil where there wasn't the same sort of segregationist mentality you have a far, far higher rate of inter marriage and mixed neighborhoods.

Since you insist: there are over 200 nations in the world. Other than Singapore (forced cohabitation between Chinese and Indians), which nations have higher rates of cohabitation than the US? If you can't think of many, could it be that the legacy of legal segregation is not the main factor?

Ah so the forced cohabitation of Singapore undermines that example but the history of forced segregation isn't relevant? Okay...

Brazil would one country that probably has a higher rate of cohabitation. The country had ten times as many slaves as the US but today only has a tiny "black" population with a very large mulatto population. Now to be fair Brazil is a very violent country but that has more to do with its economic stratification and its massive wealth inequality than racial tensions.

There was no central planner. Whites chose to move away from riots and crime in the inner cities. As the map I posted above shows, the races still aren't cohabiting for the most part, even in the inner cities. They form islands of one race, with a few exceptions.

Many suburbs explicitly excluded non-whites with the rest implicitly doing so. The government also facilitated access to home loans for whites but not blacks to allow the former to better form these suburban racial enclaves. All that happened within living memory so we're going to see effects from it to the present day.

True, but it's also the most fundamental definition: who do people choose to live with and make families with? Unless something has changed radically in the past few years, the answer is clear:

Intermarriage rates are actually increasing, having tripled for whites and blacks between 1980 and 2015

There's no reason to think this trend will reverse anytime soon.

Because that’s not the definition of the term, and it’s not how the term is typically used. Here are the relevant definitions from Merriam Webster (I removed a third definition for being irrelevant):

1 : to live together as or as if a married couple
• They cohabited in a small apartment.
2 : to live together or in company
• buffaloes cohabiting with crossbred cows
• —Biol. Abstracts

The article is translated from Dutch though and the context suggests to me that he's talking about cohabitation at the societal level. Otherwise you'd be suggesting that he's fine with a multicultural society as long as the various cultures don't cohabit but he brings up this point to argue against letting in refugees at all, not against their cohabiting with the native population.

I wonder why most of them don’t choose to cohabit with people of other races though.

They increasingly do though and historically that is what has happened with immigrants. The wave of European immigrants of the late 19th and early 20th century ended up intermarrying and assimilating to the point that their cultural distinctions are virtually non-existent. There aren't that many Italian-Americans speaking Italian or Irish-Americans speaking Gaelic nowadays and many white Americans can lay claim to a very diverse European genealogy due to that history of intermarriage.

She mentioned cohabitation within a multi-cultural society. She argues that it doesn’t work out. Ours is certainly a multi-cultural society, but there is not much cohabitation of different races. Therefore the US is not a counter-example to her statement.

So you think he's implying that a multi-cultural society is fine as long as the cultures don't cohabit? I doubt it, since he's explicitly complaining about taking in these refugees at all, not about them cohabiting with his fellow citizens.

 

[ocfightfan]

Human beings get together based on commonalities, not differences.

 

[kenetics]

Every other post from you is complaining about white people. What's up with that? Why you so mad?

I just find it funny that the only people who say multicultural is bad are SOME white people.

Haven't you notice a certain group of people on the news just hating and calling the police on multicultural groups of people for laughable offenses ?

But assuming from your post, you are Caucasian too right?

 

[waiguoren]

LOL, bullshit I hate to tell you. You need to get out more often, dude.

I've lived all around the world. Self-segregation by race is the norm, not the exception.

 

[dontsnitch]

I just find it funny that the only people who say multicultural is bad are SOME white people.

Haven't you notice a certain group of people on the news just hating and calling the police on multicultural groups of people for laughable offenses ?

But assuming from your post, you are Caucasian too right?

You had me this entire time.

Well done, have a good one.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Not really. Not much cohabitation in the US. Blacks and whites mostly stick to their own, let alone other groups.

Sure, blacks and whites kind of clump together, but I think sometimes people make too much of that. From what I see, blacks and whites get along fairly well even if they don't completely mix. I live in a 40% white, 40% black, and 20% conservative Jewish neighborhood. Everyone gets along fine.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I've lived all around the world. Self-segregation by race is the norm, not the exception.

Self-segregation by race does seem to be the norm.

I've seen computer models that suggest that it takes very little to lead to racially segregated neighborhoods. Like, if you start with completely random racial dispersion in several neighborhoods, they will segregate fairly rapidly even if no one is avoiding the other race but only desires to live near three or four people from their own race.

 

[waiguoren]

Sure, blacks and whites kind of clump together, but I think sometimes people make too much of that.

I was responding to the FM's statement that cohabitation between races doesn't work out. I was only saying that the US is not a test case for this because of the "clumping" that you mentioned.

From what I see, blacks and whites get along fairly well even if they don't completely mix. I live in a 40% white, 40% black, and 20% conservative Jewish neighborhood. Everyone gets along fine.

I agree.

My only point was: your type of neighborhood is the exception rather than the rule in the USA. Most neighborhoods are majority one race.

 

[waiguoren]

Self-segregation by race does seem to be the norm.

I've seen computer models that suggest that it takes very little to lead to racially segregated neighborhoods. Like, if you start with completely random racial dispersion in several neighborhoods, they will segregate fairly rapidly even if no one is avoiding the other race but only desires to live near three or four people from their own race.

This sums up my point well.