Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by vcmmafan, Dec 16, 2017.
So is it worth to buy even if you own the modern leglock formula and Josh Haydens stuff?
I just bought the craig jones dvd yesterday. I bought this dvd over kesting modern leglock forumla because of pricing. I rather pay the $77 then $197 kesting wanted. I figured if you actually used the dvds and train it your going to get better at leglocks no matter the source.
My days of buying $100+ for instructional dvds are over.
jesus fucking christ, 197 is a lot of fucking money for a dvd set.
Kesting on his website basically wanted $200 for that dvd. It didn't include shipping either. I didn't buy it, but that was the one item he wouldn't really price drop even for black friday sale.
Guy's - These DVD sale sites will negotiate. Kesting has always been super fair with me. I got a $197 set for $77. Tell him you want the dvd but can't pay, $197 (example.) He might give you the sale price, or, at least a discount, 20%? Give it a shot. It's a buyer's market!
I hear Rickson's dvd will be $250?!! Not sure about the content, or, how many disc's. Jan / Feb, 2018 release.
For what it's worth I like Craigs set better than Ryan Hall's 50/50 guard dvd. The only thing I know about leg locks is the 50/50 position.
From my stand point this is an advanced set? At least over my head. I have to watch each disc a couple of times. I'm also very limited to rolling (just my boy's & grappling dummy.)
***I now have a true defense against the single leg x , The Estima lock : - )
I think so but I'm foolish with my money
Thanks for the information and recommendation guys. I just ordered the DVDs. I hope it isn't too advanced for me to follow.
I'll always stick up for Ryan's dvd if someone is interested in the 50/50.
it's important to remember that DVD was filmed in 2008/2009 and came out in 2009.
When it dropped that was so much more advanced than anything out there and anything that would be released for many years.
It's funny because Ryan actually has a lot of transitions on there that take you from the 4-11 to the 50/50 which is something you wouldn't ever do now. But it made sense back then because the method of finishing the heel hook back then was by rotating and turning their heel across your chest, so keeping your legs triangled on the outside (50/50) made it harder for them to spin with you.
I wouldnt lke 50/50 to be playing footies these days...
Mataleaos - Great point! Hard to believe it's been 8 year's.
The sport is evolving daily.
But why would you ask kesting or anyone about it when you have it HERE, directly from seller for $77?
Pretty sure they're talking about two different products.
Why do you say that? Curious as the Leg Lock Formula appears more comprehensive.
Can you please provide a review of the first two discs? I’m on the fence on getting it.
There's a review of Craig Jones Down Under Leg Attacks dvd
Watched it completly and I have to say it is pretty good but also pretty advanced.
In comparsion to Stephan Kestings Leg Lock Formula I would say it is complementary but different.
The modern leglock formula is more of an systematic (somtimes a little boring;-) approach to leglocks. Pretty complete, basic and give people a good understanding on positional hierachy and so on.
Craig Jones stuff is more his personal leglock game with his personal favorites. Pretty good stuff you do not find elsewhere so it is definately worth the money. Some stuff is complex but when you work on it it will give you new pathes in the game.
I like Kesting leglock formula but I also like Jones stuff. Tons of new "tricks" I will try. New ideas for expanding the game.
So Kesting for the basics and Jones for building new stuff on the basics.......
I haven't seen the entire down under leg attacks series but they're both great in different ways. Bernacki's system is more about control and incrementally working your way into a heel hook while minimizing your opponents ability to move. Jones is about slipping into a leg attack and finishing quickly (note that I'm only 2/4 DVDs in). Both work perfectly fine. However one thing I really like about Jones set is that he covers the reverse X entries into the 411. To my memory the reverse X and half butterfly reverse X are by far the most common methods Gordon and Cummings use to enter into the 411 against high level practitioners, like Cyborg and Agusto Mendes. It's also how Jones entered on Lo and how Munchi entered on Tonon. Practicing that movement also seems to be the best way to find the 411 from all positions, and honestly it's just not covered in Bernacki's DVD which I see as a huge short coming.
This is exactly right. Their system is based on non-traditional positional controls oriented around continually threatening submissions. The only things I would add is that they play the triangle as a position much like Ryan Hall was doing many years ago, and even though it's not a big part of what you see they also have some crucifix stuff along the same lines, mostly Tonon seems to like messing around with that.
That's one spicy move.
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